More Matrtix Questions Options

[RHat]

As agents are persona's they control devices in exactly the same way as you would. What is debateable is if they can 'Jump in' because they don't have a VCR, but given that they are entirely matrix entities this may not need to be a requirement.

At the very least they can sit in VR and remote drones from your deck.

Does the text actually allow for Agents to use autosofts? Because they don't inherently have the skills for this.

[DeathStrobe]

From page 269, right before the list you mention: "Here’s a list of handy programs for the savvy rigger and their basic function"
Sounds more like a recommended list than a restriction to me.

That is not RAI or RAW.

But lets just pretend that it is. A drone can run any cyber program. We now run Decryption and now the drone has a +1 to a drone's Matrix Attack attribute. Maybe we grab the Hammer cyber program too, and now our drone is able to do 3 Matrix damage, not great, but considering how GOD has locked down cyberdecks, why would they allow legally and nonrestricted drones the ability to subvert the Matrix for WAY cheaper then a cyberdeck?

The cheapest deck is 49500¥ Why would you buy the cheapest deck, when you could get the same functionality for WAY cheaper, 1000¥ using a drone?

[BlackJaw]

It's actually been made abundantly clear, previously, that the Living Persona is NOT the brain. There may be some connection there, but it isn't the brain itself.

I admit that Technomancers didn't come up much in the 4th edition game I played in, so this actually surprises me a bit.

Note, of course, that it doesn't say anywhere that a datajack counts as plugging a cable into the Living Persona. There's a proper fix for this, of course - take the functionality of SR4's Skinlink Echo, and make it basic for technomancers.

I'd actually love it if they made the 4th edition "Skin Link" echo standard. It would give technomancers a bit more of an edge in the Techno vs Decker comparisons. Hacking a maglock without having to open it with lockpicking first would be a nice benefit.

I'm just hoping it shows up as an Echo.

[BlackJaw]

But lets just pretend that it is. A drone can run any cyber program. We now run Decryption and now the drone has a +1 to a drone's Matrix Attack attribute. Maybe we grab the Hammer cyber program too, and now our drone is able to do 3 Matrix damage, not great, but considering how GOD has locked down cyberdecks, why would they allow legally and nonrestricted drones the ability to subvert the Matrix for WAY cheaper then a cyberdeck?

The cheapest deck is 49500¥ Why would you buy the cheapest deck, when you could get the same functionality for WAY cheaper, 1000¥ using a drone?

A score of 0 and no score at all aren't the same thing. The Drone has no Attack or Sleaze at all. Running Decryption on a drone does nothing because there is no attack rating to enhance. It would be like handing a power focus to a mundane character. He can hold it, but he can never gain it's magic benefits because he has no magic to enhance.

An RCC or Drone is still limited by the lack of Attack and Sleaze, but they can benefit from a lot of cyberprograms, including those not on the list. Browse for example. The list is just some things that can be helpful for Rigging in particular. Things like Browse and Agents are more general programs.

[BlackJaw]

Does the text actually allow for Agents to use autosofts? Because they don't inherently have the skills for this.

Not at all, as they lack the skills.

Thankfully, the drone still has a pilot rating. The Agent handles the matrix, the Pilot handles the real world. Anyone using matrix perception the Agent persona could see the autosofts active and a hacker could try to crash those if they wanted.

Mind you, I doubt the authors of 5th edition thought this out, but it seems to work ok.

[RHat]

Not at all, as they lack the skills.

Thankfully, the drone still has a pilot rating. The Agent handles the matrix, the Pilot handles the real world. Anyone using matrix perception the Agent persona could see the autosofts active and a hacker could try to crash those if they wanted.

Mind you, I doubt the authors of 5th edition thought this out, but it seems to work ok.

I'm not seeing a purpose to that, though... What good is this expected to do you?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Doesn't do the job. You cannot connect a cable to your Living Persona. And even if it did work, it would be in the "something's wrong" pile.

You don't need to... you Implant a Datajack (thus gaining DNI), then connect the wire to a device using the wire provided by the Datajack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edited - Corrected Wired from Wireless...

[RHat]

You don't need to... you connect wirelessly to the device and use it to carry your signal down the wire provided by the Datajack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Which means you're not directly connected, and thus don't get to circumvent the protections of slaving or whatever Noise you're dealing with.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I admit that Technomancers didn't come up much in the 4th edition game I played in, so this actually surprises me a bit.


I'd actually love it if they made the 4th edition "Skin Link" echo standard. It would give technomancers a bit more of an edge in the Techno vs Decker comparisons. Hacking a maglock without having to open it with lockpicking first would be a nice benefit.

I'm just hoping it shows up as an Echo.

Ahhh... Lockpicking - Glad you brought that up.

You do not open locks with Lockpicking. Regardless of the vast number of quotes in the book to the contrary. Why, you may ask? Because in the Errata, Lockpicking has been removed as a Skill. It does not exist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which means you're not directly connected, and thus don't get to circumvent the protections of slaving or whatever Noise you're dealing with.

It provides DNI, through its implantation to the character, so therefore it IS directly connected to the Technomancer. It has no other choice. And once you have DNI, that direct connection to the hardware provided by the Datajack is good enough to bypass the Slaving and Noise issues you mentioned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

It provides DNI, through its implantation to the character, so therefore it IS directly connected to the Technomancer. It has no other choice. And once you have DNI, that direct connection to the hardware provided by the Datajack is good enough to bypass the Slaving and Noise issues you mentioned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

DNI and direct connection are not related to each other. A direct connection is achieved by being wired only the whole way through; the moment wireless is an element of your connection, you are not directly connected.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

DNI and direct connection are not related to each other. A direct connection is achieved by being wired only the whole way through; the moment wireless is an element of your connection, you are not directly connected.

Except that I don't claim to be wireless (though I may have said it earlier - my apologies if so, I will correct that in an Edit). You have DNI through an Implanted Datajack (all it requires is to be implanted). Therefore, with a Datajack, the Technomancer has DNI and can use the Wire provided to gain a Direct Connection to a connected device.

[RHat]

Except that I don't claim to be wireless (though I may have said it earlier - my apologies if so, I will correct that in an Edit). You have DNI through an Implanted Datajack (all it requires is to be implanted). Therefore, with a Datajack, the Technomancer has DNI and can use the Wire provided to gain a Direct Connection to a cojnnected device.

Except that they can't connect the wire to their Living Persona - which, I'll reiterate, isn't the same thing as their brain.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Except that they can't connect the wire to their Living Persona - which, I'll reiterate, isn't the same thing as their brain.

They do not have to... they have DNI through the Datajack. Which I will reiterate, is all that is required. *shrug*

[RHat]

They do not have to... they have DNI through the Datajack. Which I will reiterate, is all that is required. *shrug*

But the DNI is not relevant to the question at all.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But the DNI is not relevant to the question at all.

The DNI is all that matters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
So, what were we talking about anyways? Seems like we shot off on a tangent.

[RHat]

The DNI is all that matters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
So, what were we talking about anyways? Seems like we shot off on a tangent.

The tangent is about technomancers and direct connections. And the DNI doesn't matter for that AT ALL, because a DNI is not a part of how you determine if a connection is direct.

The general conversation is pretty broad.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

We're talking about technomancers and direct connections. And the DNI doesn't matter for that AT ALL.

Ahh Yes... And it does if the Datajack provides Both DNI to the Technomancer and a Cable for Device Connections. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

Ahh Yes... And it does if the Datajack provides Both DNI to the Technomancer and a Cable for Device Connections. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And how, exactly, is it you think that works?

[BlackJaw]

I'm not seeing a purpose to that, though... What good is this expected to do you?

As noted earlier in this thread, an agent is more versatile at matrix perception than a signal scanner (which has a range of 20 meters and either spots an icon or doesn't, with no ability to examine icons or detect the number of hidden icons). You can put an Agent program on a drone, and have the drone patrol (or scout for shadowruner teams) a facility while the Agent is looking for icons, counting hidden icons, examining icons, etc. A useful feature if you facility is larger than 100 meters and/or you spider isn't on site with his deck for the 100 meter rule. It also frees up the Spider for more human friendly tasks while the agent and drone make their automated rounds.

For a while there I thought it could also provide Full Matrix Defense for the drone, but it's been determined that the Agent is not the owner of the drone nor even the owner of itself, so it can't actually take the Full Matrix Defense action.

[Moirdryd]

While I want to agree with Ty (and probably would let it happen at my table, heck I may go for standard "skinlink" as an extra on my House Rules) I think RHat has the right of it. While the DataJack cable certainly provides a DNI to a Device it has no way of interacting with a Living Persona because a Living Persona cannot master or slave etc. For a Decker the Datajack connects to deck ad then you connect deck (or Jack if wirelessly deck connected) to the Device, thus you have DNI and access to that DNI link through your Persona.

The only RAW of doing it is using Matrix Actions to Control Device the Datajack (no rolls because it's yours) to bridge your Living Persona into the Device.... Of course if you're doing that just take a cheap commlink along and plug that in.

[RHat]

The only RAW of doing it is using Matrix Actions to Control Device the Datajack (no rolls because it's yours) to bridge your Living Persona into the Device.... Of course if you're doing that just take a cheap commlink along and plug that in.

I'm not quite sure how that's supposed to work... Care to elaborate?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

While I want to agree with Ty (and probably would let it happen at my table, heck I may go for standard "skinlink" as an extra on my House Rules) I think RHat has the right of it. While the DataJack cable certainly provides a DNI to a Device it has no way of interacting with a Living Persona because a Living Persona cannot master or slave etc. For a Decker the Datajack connects to deck ad then you connect deck (or Jack if wirelessly deck connected) to the Device, thus you have DNI and access to that DNI link through your Persona.

The only RAW of doing it is using Matrix Actions to Control Device the Datajack (no rolls because it's yours) to bridge your Living Persona into the Device.... Of course if you're doing that just take a cheap commlink along and plug that in.

And yet that Decker obtains DNI how? His mind is not a device. And DNI is a Neural Interface, says so right on the Package... Direct Neural Interface. Direct Connections are not DNI, they are Direct Connections. It is the DNI that matters here. Your living Persona is a construct of the Mind, that is why it is based upon your Mental Attributes.

[Smash]

Not at all, as they lack the skills.

Thankfully, the drone still has a pilot rating. The Agent handles the matrix, the Pilot handles the real world. Anyone using matrix perception the Agent persona could see the autosofts active and a hacker could try to crash those if they wanted.

Mind you, I doubt the authors of 5th edition thought this out, but it seems to work ok.

This is why it's not an unreasonable assumption that you can replace a pilot with an agent, essentially becoming the pilot (the book does compare the 2). Of-course the RAW does not support this in any way, but this is how it worked in 4th Ed and having an upgrade path makes sense.

[RHat]

And yet that Decker obtains DNI how? His mind is not a device. And DNI is a Neural Interface, says so right on the Package... Direct Neural Interface. Direct Connections are not DNI, they are Direct Connections. It is the DNI that matters here. Your living Persona is a construct of the Mind, that is why it is based upon your Mental Attributes.

Actually, as DNI can be wireless, and as you can have a direct connection without DNI, DNI is not an element of direct connections. Direct connections are formed by having a wired-only connection from your device to the device you're looking to hack. There is nothing in the rules to support what you're saying.

But, more broadly, if a technomnacer, as a non-ware-friendly character explicitly referenced in the text as generally staying away from augmentations, must take a datajack in order to have that basic functionality, something is Seriously Wrong. So even if it did work, there'd still be a serious problem.