 Genetic Engineering and Bioware |
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 May 5 2004, 04:59 AM
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#1
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King of the Hobos  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127  |
This is going off of memory, but SotA 2063 introduced the whole new process of genetic engineering- everything from simply changing your eye colour up to leonization and full body repair. One of the things that caught my eye was in utero modifications.
Now bioware involves switching out natural bits of your body for augmented parts to improve things. Rather than having brand new vat parts implanted into you, would it be possible to have your genes worked on before being born so that in effect you naturally grow the bioware as part of you? Wouldn't really give you any benefit, and probably be a bit more excpensive, except that you'd start right off with it. This is more for a backstory that I've got kicking around but since I know absolutely nothing about this type of thing thought I'd throw it out and get peoples feedback on it. :) |
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May 5 2004, 05:05 AM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Sure, I don't see a problem with a character being an experimental test tube baby as long as it was adequetly explained, including the part about a major secret like him getting out of corporate hands and running the shadows instead of being on a disection table somewhere.
That kind of procedure is still a long way off in Shadowrun. It might be possible in a deltac clinic-level R&D lab somewhere, but it's not something you're going to see on a regular basis. The utero modifications are more for things like correcting hereditary birth defects, changing genders, and that sort of thing. Not implanting augmented organs so you grow up to be a super soldier. :) |
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May 5 2004, 05:06 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 187 Joined: 30-April 04 Member No.: 6,294 |
Seems doable, but there's something niggling me about it that I can't quite put my finger on. Something about the method of growing bioware. *shrugs* Iono.
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May 5 2004, 05:11 AM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The text indicates that the genetic changes to get the super-metahuman performance out of specific organs has a tendency to cause other organs to fail in remarkable ways. There may be a theoretically feasible combination that sometimes survives, but it is not statistically viable.
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May 5 2004, 10:36 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 15-September 03 From: Worcester, MA Member No.: 5,621 |
As Herald said, the manipulations done to grow bioware are generally done rather haphazardly and without too much concern for consequences, since it can be cheaper to find a solution that works, rather than continue to work at something until it's totally perfect.
A blank clonal body is created with a modified genetic code. It is then force-grown to maturity. Since the body is not going to be anything other than parts, the creators don't care if, to get the super-kidneys and poison glands, the body suffers from heart disease and Alzheimer's. Snip-snip go the parts, the rest is "recycled" (make of that term what you will). The difference with cultivated bioware is that the blank is made from your own genetic material. I don't have a problem with, for a much, much greater investment of time and money, allowing these sort of modifications in vitro or in utero. Hell, it could be a proof of concept by a corporation seeking to cut operating costs by increasing the output of each body-blank. More distinct parts that can be parcelled out from a blank, the more money can be made from said blank, without much increase in production cost. I don't see much of a benefit to this sort of set-up, unless you feel like allowing the character to have a set of "bioware" that's not actually bioware (i.e., not affecting Bio Index). If you assume it's just normal bioware, just possessed from birth, it becomes nothing more than a neat character hook. If you want to create (or allow to be created) a character with bioware-like abilities that don't affect Bio Index, don't look at me. |
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May 5 2004, 10:42 AM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Sounds fine by me. To stick within the rules, use the usual bioware costs and bio-index, and then it's just a plot hook. The character's probably some prototype (or production model?) demonstrating effective genetic engineering without "a tendency to cause other organs to fail in remarkable ways." Of course, I'm a nut for genetic engineering. I love GURPS:Transhuman Space's setting, its updated humans and parahumans. |
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May 5 2004, 10:10 PM
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#7
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Have you got a page reference for that? I'd like to read it- and probably the related things that come after it. Thanks. :) |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 5 2004, 10:43 PM
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#8
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Guests |
That's been the process since Shadowtech (which has a nice image of a "accident" for genetic mod/bioware), and possibly earlier when you look at the old descriptions of clonal parts in the BBB.
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May 5 2004, 10:54 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Shadowtech, page 11, Shadowtalk, KAM's speach. It might be in a newer book, but I couldn't find it in M&M when I just looked.
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May 6 2004, 09:31 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Working on a system for 'vat-grown' metahumans inspire by another thread.
M&M surgery options for bioware: Bio Index Reduction and Redundancy can be used for such genetically adapted bioware. -5% bio index and -1 stress point each time it takes stress. |
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May 7 2004, 10:39 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Another possible alternative is to genetically engineer a person so they'd be a more compatible platform for bioware. I don't have my notes in front of me but I believe I had some notes on a variant.
You would pay the creation cost for a metahuman (10 points or a priority), in exchange you'd be a human, with higher racial maximums than a normal human, 2 points bonus starting attributes, and any bioware you implant would 'recover' 25% of its BI cost after implantation. So if you had an implant with a cost of 1, you'd still need at least 1 spare point of BI available for surgery, but post surgery, your system would reduce it down to .75, leaving you .25 space again. |
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May 8 2004, 12:09 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Now that's just an interesting idea in itself: new "races" from gengineering, nevermind the BI reductions. The priority system or the point system would work...I wonder what kind of stat boosts you could get while keeping the new "race" about as balanced as a shapechanger or some of the metahuman variants. |
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May 8 2004, 12:55 AM
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#13
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
The only real bonus I could see- keeping inside the rules- would be that because they're a natural part of you, stress damage would heal normally without the need for nanites.
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May 8 2004, 01:28 AM
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#14
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
And really the game woul dhave to be in 2075+ for a character to be viably old enough.
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May 8 2004, 01:30 AM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
It'd be better to just use the SURGE rules here. They already cover a base cost (effectively 5 Build Points just to be a Changeling), and their abilities function just like Edges and Flaws. For a transhuman, several Exceptional Attributes and Bonus Attribute Points would work well, as would characteristics like Toughness, Natural Immunity, and so on and so forth. |
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May 8 2004, 01:31 AM
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#16
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Most likely. Unless we get into cloning and forced/accelerated growth territory, but that's a thread for another time.
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May 8 2004, 01:42 AM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Nah, you could get around the 2057 bit easily by assuming the character was part of the prototype testing that went on for decades before the first commercial implant went on the market.
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May 8 2004, 01:51 AM
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#18
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
No accepting nominations for the SR chargen cliche of the year! Other nominees to follow :D
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May 8 2004, 01:52 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass what I have to say, you certainly quote and talk to me quite a bit.
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May 8 2004, 02:01 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
Also, you couldn't use it as a way to get bioware with no Bio-index cost, as all the genetech has a bio-index cost anyway.
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May 8 2004, 02:10 AM
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#21
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Go read what I said in the other thread please, I said that in that case, in that thread, what you said was not relevant to me because it did not impact my game whatsoever. Anything beyond that you read into it. I have also said several times, explicitly, you often have valid points just make them in a very poor fashion.
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May 8 2004, 02:23 PM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 26-February 02 From: DC/NOVA, USA Member No.: 80 |
What, your campaign didn't already have these once your players read Tails You Lose? ...or was mine the only game where a player asked to be a Superkid? Anyway, I'd actually allow some gene-modded characters, maybe even retrovirally induced genetech bioware. I'd treat it as a combination of the SURGE rules and bioware -- since M&M already sets a precedent on genetech taking up Bio Index, I'd rule that characters can spend Bio Index on SURGE-style Edges, and reduce these costs with SURGE-style Flaws (to reflect the "unexpected side-effects" of genetic tinkering). Not sure what the ratio of Bio Index to SURGE point should be, but that's what playtesting is for. Of course, there'd be other costs to playing a cliche, err, "interesting character concept" :S, such as having the Hunted flaw with no extra points, and not being able to geas away the Magic loss for integral genemod Bio Index (as they never lost the Magic, they never had it in the first place). I'm sure I can add other deterrents as needed, in the canon Shadowrun policy of "don't say they can't do it, just make it so cheesy and broken that it's unappealing to the munchkins"... :D |
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May 8 2004, 06:24 PM
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#23
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
heck, Ive done it, and I think literally every single player I have ever met playing shadowrun has done it in one of their first couple characters. :D
That being said I may allow it depending on how NOT generic the background is. |
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May 9 2004, 06:05 AM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 20-January 03 Member No.: 3,936 |
Ok, since no one else has asked - what bioware do you want in? This sounds like something that would be neat to have in the game, as long as you understand the gm can use it. You're going to be hunted, and possibly have strange reactions to things. Or something else I may not even tell you. But it would all depend on what bio-ware. |
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May 9 2004, 06:12 AM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Keep in mind that bioware is very new, having really only come around in the late 2050s. If you run you game in the early 2060s...
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