How do you hide a large sword? Options

[TimTurry]

I am desperate to find a weapon better than a Monofilament Whip. At least for high level characters, you could use:
Highland Forge Claymore (Blade)
But how do you walk down the street with it? The Whip fits in a pocket.

Can you hide the sword in a coat? What if you are a troll?
Can any skills (disguise) help?
What about magic (Physical Mask)?

[Umidori]

Concealing large weapons has always been difficult and slightly confusing.

Strictly speaking, if you have an item on your person, all it takes is a single hit on a Perception + Intuition Test to notice it. If you're "actively" attempting to hide an item from notice, then it becomes an Opposed roll of Perception + Intuition against your Palming + Agility as the defender.

A weapon's Concealability directly modifies the perceiver's dice pool. A claymore or katana has a Concealability of +6, which means when facing someone with an Inuition of 3 and 0 Perception (and thus defaulting), they get 3 + 0 + 6 - 1 = 8 dice to detect your big ol' sword. If you want to have reasonably good odds of avoiding detection reliably, you probably need to have about 3 more dice than the enemy, but preferably as many as you can manage to improve your chances, so you'd want 12 dice minimum, and preferably more like 15.

That's for someone with 0 Perception and average Intuition. If you're against someone with 3 or 4 ranks of Perception, you need 4 or 5 more dice yourself, meaning to hide a katana from a professional is going to take anywhere from 15 to 21 dice in Palming. For a sense of scale, in 4E, you couldn't really get past 14 dice (soft-capped 6 Agility + maximum 6 Skill + 2 Specialization) without Augmentations, Adept powers, or taking the Aptitude positive quality.

Of course, 4E had a few tricks to help even the playing field. Among other things, Arsenal's weapon mods gave access to Chameleon Coating, which reduced Concealability by 4 - essentially a must have for a concealable katana. You could also wear certain garments, like the corebooks' Lined Coat or Arsenal's various "Fashion" Greatcoats, which offered an additional reduction of 2 point for items concealed beneath it. This meant the opposition doesn't get all those free dice, and it's easier to keep your items unseen.

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As for your suggestion of Physical Mask, I see no reason why it shouldn't work perfectly well on any object. You can also use other spells like Invisibility and Camouflage, and even other forms of Magic like a Spirit's Concealment Power.

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Personally, though, I've always ruled that anything which is fully out of line of sight counts as instantly "Concealed" unless it is somehow visibly deforming the container it is inside. If you carry a Tommy Gun in a guitar case, not even the most Perceptive person in the world can actually see that weapon - they'll see the case, and they might suspect something is up if the case seems out of place (like carrying it into a Corporate office building, for example), but they won't actually be able to detect anything inside it. In contrast, if you stick a pistol in your pocket or down the back of your pants, it creates a gun-shaped bulge which is pretty noticeable and which many people would instantly recognize.

Consequently, if your GM agrees with that line of thinking and you want to be able to carry a sword around without having to make Palming tests all the time, I recommend having some sort of non-descript container to carry it in that won't draw much attention. You can find various kinds of "luggage tubes" or "travel tubes" (I'm not familiar with a commonly accepted term for this sort of container) for a variety of different hobbies that involve long, thin objects - like fishing rods, camera tripods, art supplies and more.

There is even such a thing as a "sword bag", coming in all sorts of varieties. Kendo style bags can be quite modern, or more traditional. Or maybe you've got more of a European style going on? They make bags for claymores. They make bags for fencers' rapiers. They make bags in strange shapes, to accomodate curved blades.

So if you want to carry around a claymore? Get a bag, or a tube, and sling it over your shoulder. Disguise it a little, maybe, to make it stand out less. Stick a fishing pole in the bag with the sword and leave it poking out of the top. Or get a bag with a Kodak logo on it, and wear a camera around your neck. Or maybe fleck the bag in colorful paint and leave a bunch of paint brushes visible in the small outer pockets. Or just have a plain, simple bag that could be holding just about anything. Or go with a sleek, professional tool case of some sort.

These are all useful options - in fact, you might want several or even all of them and more, because each one is going to work best in a certain sort of situation. The point is less about making the sword invisible to detection, but rather making it blend in. For day-to-day carry, you probably just want a plain bag. For situational smuggling, you'll want a specific container that suits the situation at hand. If you're wandering around in a touristy location, the camera bag cover is going to hold up well, but it won't work terribly well in a neighborhood of warehouses and factories. The paint supplies cover will work great in areas of natural beauty and around places of creativity like Universities or art studios, but it isn't going to make much sense down at the local gun range or at your local auto mechanic's shop - you'd be better off with the tool case, then.

Also remember that not every situation is going to be "winnable". Sometimes, you just have to leave the claymore home, because smuggling it somewhere is going to be damn near impossible. Times like those, you have to be flexible - maybe make do with a smaller sword or a knife, or have a disposeable weapon smuggled in for you by someone on the inside. In 4E, I was always a fan of the Victorinox Memory Blade as a reasonably powerful and immensly Concealable blade - but remember that sometimes it's less important how visually concealable something is, and more important how easily it can be detected via MAD Detectors or Millimeter Wave Scanners.

~Umi

[psychophipps]

One thing that has disappointed me about SR is how the edged weapons are all either ridunkulously huge or too small to matter. Lop off a point of damage and make it a wakizashi-style or shortsword-sized blade. Easier to maneuver indoors, easier to hide, and plenty of length for a good cut.

[Stahlseele]

SR4 introduced Memory-Metal.
Simply make the sword into a Metal-Belt and only sword it out when it's needed?

[mister__joshua]

Trouser leg - walk with a limp. Easy

[Cain]

I agree with Umi; if you come up with a clever enough case for it, you should be able to get away with carrying it.

In this case, you might want to try a electric guitar case. They're flat and rectangular, and could probably fit a traditional greatsword if you put it in diagonally. Wikipedia says they were 45-55 inches or so in length, so a case of that dimensions shouldn't be too hard to find.

[binarywraith]

Don't conceal it at all. Wear a kilt at all times. Dare people to object.

[X-Kalibur]

Don't conceal it at all. Wear a kilt at all times. Dare people to object.

And bare arse them if they do.

[Umidori]

Just don't defiantly play the bagpipes. You'll be shot on sight.

~Umi

[Drace]

Have to agree with Umi on how to conceal them. It's less of "hiding it on your person" and more of hiding it in a concealed container in plain sight.

Imagine trying to walk around nowadays with a claymore, some of them are as big as people. Unless it's pink Mohawk or there is a good reason to carry it around (certain cultural norms may apply i.e. katana as within certain japancorp/Japanese situations, a dirk for scottish/welsh situations, blade (can't remember the name) for Sikh situations and the like, carrying around a several foot long weapon may not be that easy to conceal.

I would also say gearing it to th run in question would be most advisable. You won't need your battle axe of car splitting or assault rifle when going for a meet (unless your in over watch/response). You may need them for a run though and then you can gear your disguise to accommodate your weapon.

[SpellBinder]

There's also the Victorinox SmartStaff from WAR. Can't get around MAD scanners, but folded up it's about the size and shape of a pencil box.

[Umidori]

I'm still eagerly anticipating the development of non-eutactic blades in the SR-verse. (Although with the nanite meltdown, that seems further and further away.)

~Umi

[TimTurry]

Umidori:

Thanks a lot. Your detailed explanation of the mechanics was very helpful to me (a beginner). I do not see where you got the “+6 concealability” number for the swords (please tell me).

The guitar/flower/painting case would hide it, but you can't get it mid-combat. Also, how believable is a troll walking around with a guitar case? You might as well carry the Tommygun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?

[Umidori]

I've long complained that individual items should have their own Concealability modifiers listed along with their other statistics like damage codes and item costs, but it has yet to happen that way.

For SR5, check out the Concealability Table on page 420.

Although, looking at it now, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. The old Concealability Table for SR4 used to max out at +6, and that was where anything the size of a rifle or a katana or other big, long, two-handed piece of gear used to go - including claymores, hence why I cited that number. But it looks like they've extended the upper thresholds to a new maximum of +10, and they specifically list Claymores under that category.

That's an absurd change, in my opinion. Even with a Chameleon Coating (did Run and Gun bring those back yet? I haven't bought it) and a big ol' Highlander style greatcoat, you're still only down to +4 Concealability, meaning you need to have the Palming skill of a pretty dedicated Thief to be able to hide the damn thing.

Then again... they ARE friggen huge. A typical katana has a blade length of 60-75cm, while a typical claymore has a blade length of 100–115cm - that's a good 16 inches difference.

~Umi

Addendum: Random aside, but I personally feel that Dwarves and Trolls should have inate concealability modifiers. If you're 8' 3", your trenchcoat is going to have a lot more room for hiding things under it than the average 5' 11" human. Likewise, if you're only 3' 9", your trenchcoat is going to have a lot less room to hide those same-sized items.

[Cain]

The guitar/flower/painting case would hide it, but you can't get it mid-combat. Also, how believable is a troll walking around with a guitar case? You might as well carry the Tommygun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Actually, it looks like it all falls under GM discretion and the Ready Weapon simple action. It shouldn't be any harder than drawing another weapon.

As far as how likely a troll is to be carrying one, that depends on you and your character. Depending on how he presents himself, he might be able to use a really big toolbox. It'd help if he wears a set of grubby coveralls, but it could work.

[Stahlseele]

quick question.
how set are you on it actually being a sword?
a telscoping staff made from hard plastic or an extendable baton made from ceramics will be more effective in most cases, less illegal and harder to find on your person usually . .

[TimTurry]

Thanks for the pointer on concealing. I agree they should have put it next to the weapon.

Any chance at a second on my other question: In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?

[Rubic]

Hide your sword inside a loaf of bread!!

[Umidori]

Legerdemain is what I always used for things like hiding objects, because that's what Magicians (the primary people who employ the term "legerdemain") use it for. When they hide an object on their person through slight of hand, that's Legerdemain - hence, when a Shadowrunner does the same thing, it should also be Legerdemain.

Also, did they really change "Shoplifting" into "Pilfering" for SR5? Wow, talk about making the terminology even more vague and confusing!

If it were up to me, I'd rename the three Specializations to "Concealment", "Pickpocket", and "Burglary". Concealment, obviously enough, deals with hiding objects; Pickpocket is taking objects that other people have on their persons; and Burglary is taking objects from a location.

~Umi

Edit: Rubic, the link doesn't work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thanks for the pointer on concealing. I agree they should have put it next to the weapon.

Any chance at a second on my other question: In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?

Listed Specializations are just suggestions. You can use any "Specialization" that makes sense and your GM allows. The listed one he gave you in his example is a placeholder for whatever specialization that you implement for such things. But yes, of the three in the book, Legerdemain is the one to go with.

[TimTurry]

Thanks guys. This is a great place for beginners to get advice.

[KarmaInferno]

You just need a trenchcoat.

Swords of all types can be hidden in trenchcoats.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



-k

[Umidori]

Truth in Tropes?

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You just need a trenchcoat.

Swords of all types can be hidden in trenchcoats.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



-k

Called the Trenchcoat Effect in "Tales from the Floating Vagabond"
Fun game by the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JesterZero]

Physical Mask was already mentioned upthread as a means of disguising the object itself, but there's another way to use that spell that achieves a similar end.

• Step 1: Carry your LMG / Claymore / etc.
• Step 2: Cast Physical Mask on yourself. In this case, the result of the Physical Mask spell is simply a version of you not carrying your LMG / Claymore / etc.
• Step 3: Profit

This only becomes an issue if the things you are masking have sufficient mass and / or volume that your GM decides you are no longer your same "basic size or shape." YMMV on that aspect of it.

I think the other means of directly hiding things in general (Physical Mask, Improved Invisibility, Concealment, Ruthemium Polymers, Palming, etc.) were already dealt with.