I am desperate to find a weapon better than a Monofilament Whip. At least for high level characters, you could use:
Highland Forge Claymore (Blade)
But how do you walk down the street with it? The Whip fits in a pocket.
Can you hide the sword in a coat? What if you are a troll?
Can any skills (disguise) help?
What about magic (Physical Mask)?
Full Version: How do you hide a large sword?
Concealing large weapons has always been difficult and slightly confusing.
Strictly speaking, if you have an item on your person, all it takes is a single hit on a Perception + Intuition Test to notice it. If you're "actively" attempting to hide an item from notice, then it becomes an Opposed roll of Perception + Intuition against your Palming + Agility as the defender.
A weapon's Concealability directly modifies the perceiver's dice pool. A claymore or katana has a Concealability of +6, which means when facing someone with an Inuition of 3 and 0 Perception (and thus defaulting), they get 3 + 0 + 6 - 1 = 8 dice to detect your big ol' sword. If you want to have reasonably good odds of avoiding detection reliably, you probably need to have about 3 more dice than the enemy, but preferably as many as you can manage to improve your chances, so you'd want 12 dice minimum, and preferably more like 15.
That's for someone with 0 Perception and average Intuition. If you're against someone with 3 or 4 ranks of Perception, you need 4 or 5 more dice yourself, meaning to hide a katana from a professional is going to take anywhere from 15 to 21 dice in Palming. For a sense of scale, in 4E, you couldn't really get past 14 dice (soft-capped 6 Agility + maximum 6 Skill + 2 Specialization) without Augmentations, Adept powers, or taking the Aptitude positive quality.
Of course, 4E had a few tricks to help even the playing field. Among other things, Arsenal's weapon mods gave access to Chameleon Coating, which reduced Concealability by 4 - essentially a must have for a concealable katana. You could also wear certain garments, like the corebooks' Lined Coat or Arsenal's various "Fashion" Greatcoats, which offered an additional reduction of 2 point for items concealed beneath it. This meant the opposition doesn't get all those free dice, and it's easier to keep your items unseen.
-------
As for your suggestion of Physical Mask, I see no reason why it shouldn't work perfectly well on any object. You can also use other spells like Invisibility and Camouflage, and even other forms of Magic like a Spirit's Concealment Power.
-------
Personally, though, I've always ruled that anything which is fully out of line of sight counts as instantly "Concealed" unless it is somehow visibly deforming the container it is inside. If you carry a Tommy Gun in a guitar case, not even the most Perceptive person in the world can actually see that weapon - they'll see the case, and they might suspect something is up if the case seems out of place (like carrying it into a Corporate office building, for example), but they won't actually be able to detect anything inside it. In contrast, if you stick a pistol in your pocket or down the back of your pants, it creates a gun-shaped bulge which is pretty noticeable and which many people would instantly recognize.
Consequently, if your GM agrees with that line of thinking and you want to be able to carry a sword around without having to make Palming tests all the time, I recommend having some sort of non-descript container to carry it in that won't draw much attention. You can find various kinds of "luggage tubes" or "travel tubes" (I'm not familiar with a commonly accepted term for this sort of container) for a variety of different hobbies that involve long, thin objects - like fishing rods, camera tripods, art supplies and more.
There is even such a thing as a "sword bag", coming in all sorts of varieties. Kendo style bags can be quite modern, or more traditional. Or maybe you've got more of a European style going on? They make bags for claymores. They make bags for fencers' rapiers. They make bags in strange shapes, to accomodate curved blades.
So if you want to carry around a claymore? Get a bag, or a tube, and sling it over your shoulder. Disguise it a little, maybe, to make it stand out less. Stick a fishing pole in the bag with the sword and leave it poking out of the top. Or get a bag with a Kodak logo on it, and wear a camera around your neck. Or maybe fleck the bag in colorful paint and leave a bunch of paint brushes visible in the small outer pockets. Or just have a plain, simple bag that could be holding just about anything. Or go with a sleek, professional tool case of some sort.
These are all useful options - in fact, you might want several or even all of them and more, because each one is going to work best in a certain sort of situation. The point is less about making the sword invisible to detection, but rather making it blend in. For day-to-day carry, you probably just want a plain bag. For situational smuggling, you'll want a specific container that suits the situation at hand. If you're wandering around in a touristy location, the camera bag cover is going to hold up well, but it won't work terribly well in a neighborhood of warehouses and factories. The paint supplies cover will work great in areas of natural beauty and around places of creativity like Universities or art studios, but it isn't going to make much sense down at the local gun range or at your local auto mechanic's shop - you'd be better off with the tool case, then.
Also remember that not every situation is going to be "winnable". Sometimes, you just have to leave the claymore home, because smuggling it somewhere is going to be damn near impossible. Times like those, you have to be flexible - maybe make do with a smaller sword or a knife, or have a disposeable weapon smuggled in for you by someone on the inside. In 4E, I was always a fan of the Victorinox Memory Blade as a reasonably powerful and immensly Concealable blade - but remember that sometimes it's less important how visually concealable something is, and more important how easily it can be detected via MAD Detectors or Millimeter Wave Scanners.
~Umi
Strictly speaking, if you have an item on your person, all it takes is a single hit on a Perception + Intuition Test to notice it. If you're "actively" attempting to hide an item from notice, then it becomes an Opposed roll of Perception + Intuition against your Palming + Agility as the defender.
A weapon's Concealability directly modifies the perceiver's dice pool. A claymore or katana has a Concealability of +6, which means when facing someone with an Inuition of 3 and 0 Perception (and thus defaulting), they get 3 + 0 + 6 - 1 = 8 dice to detect your big ol' sword. If you want to have reasonably good odds of avoiding detection reliably, you probably need to have about 3 more dice than the enemy, but preferably as many as you can manage to improve your chances, so you'd want 12 dice minimum, and preferably more like 15.
That's for someone with 0 Perception and average Intuition. If you're against someone with 3 or 4 ranks of Perception, you need 4 or 5 more dice yourself, meaning to hide a katana from a professional is going to take anywhere from 15 to 21 dice in Palming. For a sense of scale, in 4E, you couldn't really get past 14 dice (soft-capped 6 Agility + maximum 6 Skill + 2 Specialization) without Augmentations, Adept powers, or taking the Aptitude positive quality.
Of course, 4E had a few tricks to help even the playing field. Among other things, Arsenal's weapon mods gave access to Chameleon Coating, which reduced Concealability by 4 - essentially a must have for a concealable katana. You could also wear certain garments, like the corebooks' Lined Coat or Arsenal's various "Fashion" Greatcoats, which offered an additional reduction of 2 point for items concealed beneath it. This meant the opposition doesn't get all those free dice, and it's easier to keep your items unseen.
-------
As for your suggestion of Physical Mask, I see no reason why it shouldn't work perfectly well on any object. You can also use other spells like Invisibility and Camouflage, and even other forms of Magic like a Spirit's Concealment Power.
-------
Personally, though, I've always ruled that anything which is fully out of line of sight counts as instantly "Concealed" unless it is somehow visibly deforming the container it is inside. If you carry a Tommy Gun in a guitar case, not even the most Perceptive person in the world can actually see that weapon - they'll see the case, and they might suspect something is up if the case seems out of place (like carrying it into a Corporate office building, for example), but they won't actually be able to detect anything inside it. In contrast, if you stick a pistol in your pocket or down the back of your pants, it creates a gun-shaped bulge which is pretty noticeable and which many people would instantly recognize.
Consequently, if your GM agrees with that line of thinking and you want to be able to carry a sword around without having to make Palming tests all the time, I recommend having some sort of non-descript container to carry it in that won't draw much attention. You can find various kinds of "luggage tubes" or "travel tubes" (I'm not familiar with a commonly accepted term for this sort of container) for a variety of different hobbies that involve long, thin objects - like fishing rods, camera tripods, art supplies and more.
There is even such a thing as a "sword bag", coming in all sorts of varieties. Kendo style bags can be quite modern, or more traditional. Or maybe you've got more of a European style going on? They make bags for claymores. They make bags for fencers' rapiers. They make bags in strange shapes, to accomodate curved blades.
So if you want to carry around a claymore? Get a bag, or a tube, and sling it over your shoulder. Disguise it a little, maybe, to make it stand out less. Stick a fishing pole in the bag with the sword and leave it poking out of the top. Or get a bag with a Kodak logo on it, and wear a camera around your neck. Or maybe fleck the bag in colorful paint and leave a bunch of paint brushes visible in the small outer pockets. Or just have a plain, simple bag that could be holding just about anything. Or go with a sleek, professional tool case of some sort.
These are all useful options - in fact, you might want several or even all of them and more, because each one is going to work best in a certain sort of situation. The point is less about making the sword invisible to detection, but rather making it blend in. For day-to-day carry, you probably just want a plain bag. For situational smuggling, you'll want a specific container that suits the situation at hand. If you're wandering around in a touristy location, the camera bag cover is going to hold up well, but it won't work terribly well in a neighborhood of warehouses and factories. The paint supplies cover will work great in areas of natural beauty and around places of creativity like Universities or art studios, but it isn't going to make much sense down at the local gun range or at your local auto mechanic's shop - you'd be better off with the tool case, then.
Also remember that not every situation is going to be "winnable". Sometimes, you just have to leave the claymore home, because smuggling it somewhere is going to be damn near impossible. Times like those, you have to be flexible - maybe make do with a smaller sword or a knife, or have a disposeable weapon smuggled in for you by someone on the inside. In 4E, I was always a fan of the Victorinox Memory Blade as a reasonably powerful and immensly Concealable blade - but remember that sometimes it's less important how visually concealable something is, and more important how easily it can be detected via MAD Detectors or Millimeter Wave Scanners.
~Umi
One thing that has disappointed me about SR is how the edged weapons are all either ridunkulously huge or too small to matter. Lop off a point of damage and make it a wakizashi-style or shortsword-sized blade. Easier to maneuver indoors, easier to hide, and plenty of length for a good cut.
SR4 introduced Memory-Metal.
Simply make the sword into a Metal-Belt and only sword it out when it's needed?
Simply make the sword into a Metal-Belt and only sword it out when it's needed?
Trouser leg - walk with a limp. Easy
I agree with Umi; if you come up with a clever enough case for it, you should be able to get away with carrying it.
In this case, you might want to try a electric guitar case. They're flat and rectangular, and could probably fit a traditional greatsword if you put it in diagonally. Wikipedia says they were 45-55 inches or so in length, so a case of that dimensions shouldn't be too hard to find.
In this case, you might want to try a electric guitar case. They're flat and rectangular, and could probably fit a traditional greatsword if you put it in diagonally. Wikipedia says they were 45-55 inches or so in length, so a case of that dimensions shouldn't be too hard to find.
Don't conceal it at all. Wear a kilt at all times. Dare people to object.
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Apr 16 2014, 07:11 AM) 
Don't conceal it at all. Wear a kilt at all times. Dare people to object.
And bare arse them if they do.
Just don't defiantly play the bagpipes. You'll be shot on sight.
~Umi
~Umi
Have to agree with Umi on how to conceal them. It's less of "hiding it on your person" and more of hiding it in a concealed container in plain sight.
Imagine trying to walk around nowadays with a claymore, some of them are as big as people. Unless it's pink Mohawk or there is a good reason to carry it around (certain cultural norms may apply i.e. katana as within certain japancorp/Japanese situations, a dirk for scottish/welsh situations, blade (can't remember the name) for Sikh situations and the like, carrying around a several foot long weapon may not be that easy to conceal.
I would also say gearing it to th run in question would be most advisable. You won't need your battle axe of car splitting or assault rifle when going for a meet (unless your in over watch/response). You may need them for a run though and then you can gear your disguise to accommodate your weapon.
Imagine trying to walk around nowadays with a claymore, some of them are as big as people. Unless it's pink Mohawk or there is a good reason to carry it around (certain cultural norms may apply i.e. katana as within certain japancorp/Japanese situations, a dirk for scottish/welsh situations, blade (can't remember the name) for Sikh situations and the like, carrying around a several foot long weapon may not be that easy to conceal.
I would also say gearing it to th run in question would be most advisable. You won't need your battle axe of car splitting or assault rifle when going for a meet (unless your in over watch/response). You may need them for a run though and then you can gear your disguise to accommodate your weapon.
There's also the Victorinox SmartStaff from WAR. Can't get around MAD scanners, but folded up it's about the size and shape of a pencil box.
I'm still eagerly anticipating the development of non-eutactic blades in the SR-verse. (Although with the nanite meltdown, that seems further and further away.)
~Umi
~Umi
Umidori:
Thanks a lot. Your detailed explanation of the mechanics was very helpful to me (a beginner). I do not see where you got the “+6 concealability” number for the swords (please tell me).
The guitar/flower/painting case would hide it, but you can't get it mid-combat. Also, how believable is a troll walking around with a guitar case? You might as well carry the Tommygun.
In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?
Thanks a lot. Your detailed explanation of the mechanics was very helpful to me (a beginner). I do not see where you got the “+6 concealability” number for the swords (please tell me).
The guitar/flower/painting case would hide it, but you can't get it mid-combat. Also, how believable is a troll walking around with a guitar case? You might as well carry the Tommygun.
In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?
I've long complained that individual items should have their own Concealability modifiers listed along with their other statistics like damage codes and item costs, but it has yet to happen that way.
For SR5, check out the Concealability Table on page 420.
Although, looking at it now, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. The old Concealability Table for SR4 used to max out at +6, and that was where anything the size of a rifle or a katana or other big, long, two-handed piece of gear used to go - including claymores, hence why I cited that number. But it looks like they've extended the upper thresholds to a new maximum of +10, and they specifically list Claymores under that category.
That's an absurd change, in my opinion. Even with a Chameleon Coating (did Run and Gun bring those back yet? I haven't bought it) and a big ol' Highlander style greatcoat, you're still only down to +4 Concealability, meaning you need to have the Palming skill of a pretty dedicated Thief to be able to hide the damn thing.
Then again... they ARE friggen huge. A typical katana has a blade length of 60-75cm, while a typical claymore has a blade length of 100–115cm - that's a good 16 inches difference.
~Umi
Addendum: Random aside, but I personally feel that Dwarves and Trolls should have inate concealability modifiers. If you're 8' 3", your trenchcoat is going to have a lot more room for hiding things under it than the average 5' 11" human. Likewise, if you're only 3' 9", your trenchcoat is going to have a lot less room to hide those same-sized items.
For SR5, check out the Concealability Table on page 420.
Although, looking at it now, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. The old Concealability Table for SR4 used to max out at +6, and that was where anything the size of a rifle or a katana or other big, long, two-handed piece of gear used to go - including claymores, hence why I cited that number. But it looks like they've extended the upper thresholds to a new maximum of +10, and they specifically list Claymores under that category.
That's an absurd change, in my opinion. Even with a Chameleon Coating (did Run and Gun bring those back yet? I haven't bought it) and a big ol' Highlander style greatcoat, you're still only down to +4 Concealability, meaning you need to have the Palming skill of a pretty dedicated Thief to be able to hide the damn thing.
Then again... they ARE friggen huge. A typical katana has a blade length of 60-75cm, while a typical claymore has a blade length of 100–115cm - that's a good 16 inches difference.
~Umi
Addendum: Random aside, but I personally feel that Dwarves and Trolls should have inate concealability modifiers. If you're 8' 3", your trenchcoat is going to have a lot more room for hiding things under it than the average 5' 11" human. Likewise, if you're only 3' 9", your trenchcoat is going to have a lot less room to hide those same-sized items.
QUOTE (TimTurry @ Apr 16 2014, 02:28 PM)
The guitar/flower/painting case would hide it, but you can't get it mid-combat. Also, how believable is a troll walking around with a guitar case? You might as well carry the Tommygun.
Actually, it looks like it all falls under GM discretion and the Ready Weapon simple action. It shouldn't be any harder than drawing another weapon.
As far as how likely a troll is to be carrying one, that depends on you and your character. Depending on how he presents himself, he might be able to use a really big toolbox. It'd help if he wears a set of grubby coveralls, but it could work.
quick question.
how set are you on it actually being a sword?
a telscoping staff made from hard plastic or an extendable baton made from ceramics will be more effective in most cases, less illegal and harder to find on your person usually . .
how set are you on it actually being a sword?
a telscoping staff made from hard plastic or an extendable baton made from ceramics will be more effective in most cases, less illegal and harder to find on your person usually . .
Thanks for the pointer on concealing. I agree they should have put it next to the weapon.
Any chance at a second on my other question: In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?
Any chance at a second on my other question: In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?
Legerdemain is what I always used for things like hiding objects, because that's what Magicians (the primary people who employ the term "legerdemain") use it for. When they hide an object on their person through slight of hand, that's Legerdemain - hence, when a Shadowrunner does the same thing, it should also be Legerdemain.
Also, did they really change "Shoplifting" into "Pilfering" for SR5? Wow, talk about making the terminology even more vague and confusing!
If it were up to me, I'd rename the three Specializations to "Concealment", "Pickpocket", and "Burglary". Concealment, obviously enough, deals with hiding objects; Pickpocket is taking objects that other people have on their persons; and Burglary is taking objects from a location.
~Umi
Edit: Rubic, the link doesn't work!
Also, did they really change "Shoplifting" into "Pilfering" for SR5? Wow, talk about making the terminology even more vague and confusing!
If it were up to me, I'd rename the three Specializations to "Concealment", "Pickpocket", and "Burglary". Concealment, obviously enough, deals with hiding objects; Pickpocket is taking objects that other people have on their persons; and Burglary is taking objects from a location.
~Umi
Edit: Rubic, the link doesn't work!
QUOTE (TimTurry @ Apr 16 2014, 09:15 PM)
Thanks for the pointer on concealing. I agree they should have put it next to the weapon.
Any chance at a second on my other question: In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?
Any chance at a second on my other question: In your example to hide the sword you state: “6 Agility + 6 Palming Skill + 2 Specialization.” When I look up Palming, the specializations I see are: Legerdemain, Pickpocket, Pilfering. How do I use “your” specialization?
Listed Specializations are just suggestions. You can use any "Specialization" that makes sense and your GM allows. The listed one he gave you in his example is a placeholder for whatever specialization that you implement for such things. But yes, of the three in the book, Legerdemain is the one to go with.
Thanks guys. This is a great place for beginners to get advice.
You just need a trenchcoat.
Swords of all types can be hidden in trenchcoats.
-k
Swords of all types can be hidden in trenchcoats.
-k
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Apr 17 2014, 09:06 AM)
You just need a trenchcoat.
Swords of all types can be hidden in trenchcoats.
-k
Swords of all types can be hidden in trenchcoats.
-k
Called the Trenchcoat Effect in "Tales from the Floating Vagabond"
Fun game by the way.
Physical Mask was already mentioned upthread as a means of disguising the object itself, but there's another way to use that spell that achieves a similar end.
I think the other means of directly hiding things in general (Physical Mask, Improved Invisibility, Concealment, Ruthemium Polymers, Palming, etc.) were already dealt with.
- Step 1: Carry your LMG / Claymore / etc.
- Step 2: Cast Physical Mask on yourself. In this case, the result of the Physical Mask spell is simply a version of you not carrying your LMG / Claymore / etc.
- Step 3: Profit
I think the other means of directly hiding things in general (Physical Mask, Improved Invisibility, Concealment, Ruthemium Polymers, Palming, etc.) were already dealt with.
The Immortals game (by Precedence) has an interesting take on that.
They have a power (cannot remember the name off the top of my head) that presents as what the viewer expects to see. You need not set it, just activate and go on about your business. Those who observe only see what they expect to see in the situation. If you carry a sword, and are dressed well, they may see a distinguished gentleman carrying a cane. If in a Military Officers uniform, they may see a swagger stick, etc. It was pretty awesome.
They have a power (cannot remember the name off the top of my head) that presents as what the viewer expects to see. You need not set it, just activate and go on about your business. Those who observe only see what they expect to see in the situation. If you carry a sword, and are dressed well, they may see a distinguished gentleman carrying a cane. If in a Military Officers uniform, they may see a swagger stick, etc. It was pretty awesome.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 17 2014, 08:09 PM)
Called the Trenchcoat Effect in "Tales from the Floating Vagabond"
Fun game by the way.
Fun game by the way.
It's called Katana Space -- an n-dimensional fold in the fabric of the universe accessed from the inside of a trenchcoat folded across one's arm.
Lacking a blessed trenchcoat of holding, how about this: Cover the blade in latex paint and add some obviously completely useless colorful thingies on the hilt. "Of course that is a prop weapon officer, what did you think?"
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 17 2014, 01:26 PM)
The Immortals game (by Precedence) has an interesting take on that.
They have a power (cannot remember the name off the top of my head) that presents as what the viewer expects to see. You need not set it, just activate and go on about your business. Those who observe only see what they expect to see in the situation. If you carry a sword, and are dressed well, they may see a distinguished gentleman carrying a cane. If in a Military Officers uniform, they may see a swagger stick, etc. It was pretty awesome.
They have a power (cannot remember the name off the top of my head) that presents as what the viewer expects to see. You need not set it, just activate and go on about your business. Those who observe only see what they expect to see in the situation. If you carry a sword, and are dressed well, they may see a distinguished gentleman carrying a cane. If in a Military Officers uniform, they may see a swagger stick, etc. It was pretty awesome.
That's sounds like an old psychological ad parapsychology theory that if something is so out of place for our mind to accept it, it would be simply glossed over, and smaller inconsistencies would be also unnoticed at first (second glance effect) and result in a double take to accept the reality as ones own.
Magic could essentially wreck havoc with this.
QUOTE (Sengir @ Apr 17 2014, 06:30 PM)
It's called Katana Space -- an n-dimensional fold in the fabric of the universe accessed from the inside of a trenchcoat folded across one's arm.
Lacking a blessed trenchcoat of holding, how about this: Cover the blade in latex paint and add some obviously completely useless colorful thingies on the hilt. "Of course that is a prop weapon officer, what did you think?"
Lacking a blessed trenchcoat of holding, how about this: Cover the blade in latex paint and add some obviously completely useless colorful thingies on the hilt. "Of course that is a prop weapon officer, what did you think?"
I can see that now:
"No officer it's a boffer Katana and an airsoft Ares Alpha with a replica under barrel grenade launcher. Yes the handgun is real. I'm a Larper not an idiot."
QUOTE (Drace @ Apr 18 2014, 01:48 AM)
Yes the handgun is real. I'm a Larper not an idiot."
I lol'd
Although making an assault rifle look like an airsoft sounds a bit more complicated...
I've had a few instances where I had to tell my fellow airsofters to leave the Glock in place when they were searching me for intel.
If you're seriously carrying an actual firearm onto an airsoft field in the modern day, you need to seriously rethink your priorities in life.
There is such a thing as an idea too dumb to survive.
There is such a thing as an idea too dumb to survive.
Yet another way to play Russian Roulette.
"Which of these six guns is the real one? You'll find out!"
~Umi
"Which of these six guns is the real one? You'll find out!"
~Umi
When your one airsoft gun is an AK and your one actual firearm is a Glock, it gets real hard to cross them up.
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Apr 18 2014, 07:58 AM)
When your one airsoft gun is an AK and your one actual firearm is a Glock, it gets real hard to cross them up.
And yet the point still stands. *shrug*
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 18 2014, 08:06 AM)
And yet the point still stands. *shrug*
Sorry, it just occurred to me that you guys think I was playing airsoft in a city. My bad. I was playing out in the Olympic Mountains in Methlab Central for Washington State. It was literally a good week for the local Rangers if only one meth lab blew up on park grounds. There was also a rash of Mountain Lion attacks in the area we were playing in so carrying was actually a pretty good idea since we were up in the fire roads and away from the frequently travelled trails and the like. There was also an EMT and two sheriff's deputies playing in our group.
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Apr 18 2014, 05:29 PM)
Sorry, it just occurred to me that you guys think I was playing airsoft in a city. My bad. I was playing out in the Olympic Mountains in Methlab Central for Washington State. It was literally a good week for the local Rangers if only one meth lab blew up on park grounds. There was also a rash of Mountain Lion attacks in the area we were playing in so carrying was actually a pretty good idea since we were up in the fire roads and away from the frequently travelled trails and the like. There was also an EMT and two sheriff's deputies playing in our group.
..u carry a Glock?.. may i ask what model? myself have model 17 3gen..
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Apr 18 2014, 08:29 AM)
Sorry, it just occurred to me that you guys think I was playing airsoft in a city. My bad. I was playing out in the Olympic Mountains in Methlab Central for Washington State. It was literally a good week for the local Rangers if only one meth lab blew up on park grounds. There was also a rash of Mountain Lion attacks in the area we were playing in so carrying was actually a pretty good idea since we were up in the fire roads and away from the frequently travelled trails and the like. There was also an EMT and two sheriff's deputies playing in our group.
Ahhh... In that instance I would carry a Colt .45 Long Colt. My Favorite Hunting Handgun.
And would not be playing Airsoft or Paintball at the same time.
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Apr 18 2014, 09:29 AM)
Sorry, it just occurred to me that you guys think I was playing airsoft in a city. My bad. I was playing out in the Olympic Mountains in Methlab Central for Washington State. It was literally a good week for the local Rangers if only one meth lab blew up on park grounds. There was also a rash of Mountain Lion attacks in the area we were playing in so carrying was actually a pretty good idea since we were up in the fire roads and away from the frequently travelled trails and the like. There was also an EMT and two sheriff's deputies playing in our group.
Then you find another place to play. Seriously, the level of irresponsibility required to bring a real firearm into a game where you are shooting outwardly nearly identical airsoft guns at each other is nearly incomprehensible to me. All it takes is one spur of the moment slip and someone else is going to be needing that EMT that's with you because you couldn't understand basic safety principals for carrying a goddamn gun.
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Apr 18 2014, 06:54 PM)
Then you find another place to play. Seriously, the level of irresponsibility required to bring a real firearm into a game where you are shooting outwardly nearly identical airsoft guns at each other is nearly incomprehensible to me. All it takes is one spur of the moment slip and someone else is going to be needing that EMT that's with you because you couldn't understand basic safety principals for carrying a goddamn gun.
..didn't they shoot airsoft ak-47??? if one make mistake not realizing difference between ak-47( assault rifle type) and Glock pistol..
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Apr 18 2014, 03:58 PM)
When your one airsoft gun is an AK and your one actual firearm is a Glock, it gets real hard to cross them up.
If I got a dollar for every plant that blew up because somebody was sure that he'd always remember which of the two buttons to push and that nobody else would ever operate those buttons...
There is a damn good reason why dummy rounds and anything containing pyrotechnics are never to be mixed, not matter how different the calibers or how clearly they are painted.
QUOTE (Stingray @ Apr 18 2014, 11:17 AM)
..didn't they shoot airsoft ak-47??? if one make mistake not realizing difference between ak-47( assault rifle type) and Glock pistol..
Sure. Suppose, in all the running around, he drops that Glock. It probably won't go off, Glocks have pretty good safties against that sort of thing. But is everyone else on the field going to know that's not just a airsoft sidearm that was dropped before they take a shot at someone with it?
It's purely irresponsible.
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Apr 18 2014, 07:50 PM)
Sure. Suppose, in all the running around, he drops that Glock. It probably won't go off, Glocks have pretty good safties against that sort of thing. But is everyone else on the field going to know that's not just a airsoft sidearm that was dropped before they take a shot at someone with it?
It's purely irresponsible.
It's purely irresponsible.
..if LEO and etc. can not tell a difference...and real Fireams would be heavily strapped with multiple times to hold it in place. (or separate bag etc..)..
The more this conversation goes on, the more I worry about the kind of people they give CCW licenses to these days. You really don't seem to understand much about safe firearms carry. LEOs, just like everyone else, have negligent discharges. It doesn't matter who you are, or how well you're trained, screwing around with a firearm on you makes you vulnerable to accidents that can kill people dead.
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Apr 18 2014, 08:02 PM)
The more this conversation goes on, the more I worry about the kind of people they give CCW licenses to these days. You really don't seem to understand much about safe firearms carry. LEOs, just like everyone else, have negligent discharges. It doesn't matter who you are, or how well you're trained, screwing around with a firearm on you makes you vulnerable to accidents that can kill people dead.
..so if Place have lot of Bears (Alaska),Mountain Cats (Puma,Cougar), people have no right to Defend Him/Herself..and some states only carry option is CCW..
I would like to rail it back to original topic, Thank u !!
QUOTE (Stingray @ Apr 18 2014, 10:10 AM)
..so if Place have lot of Bears (Alaska),Mountain Cats (Puma,Cougar), people have no right to Defend Him/Herself..and some states only carry option is CCW..
I would like to rail it back to original topic, Thank u !!
I would like to rail it back to original topic, Thank u !!
That is not what he said - what he said was the carrying a live gun into an Airsoft "tournament" is inherently dangerous. It IS very easy to have it go wrong given circumstances (like a dropped gun that you never noticed was missing). The potential for "very bad things"™ to happen is there, and not everyone is going to know the gun is real as compared to an airsoft gun (the Individual had to tell others not to touch, which is an obvious issue at that point).
QUOTE (Stingray @ Apr 18 2014, 07:10 PM)
I would like to rail it back to original topic, Thank u !!
Complaining about derailment looks kinda dishonest if prefaced by an "answer" having nothing to do with the quoted post...
QUOTE (Sengir @ Apr 18 2014, 08:16 PM)
Complaining about derailment looks kinda dishonest if prefaced by an "answer" having nothing to do with the quoted post...
..look at post 43,..
..just complaining people having a CCW..
QUOTE (Stingray @ Apr 18 2014, 07:23 PM)
..look at post 43,..
..just complaining people having a CCW..
..just complaining people having a CCW..
I worry about the kind of people they give CCW licenses to these days.
Yeah, that's clearly expressing an aversion against people having a CCW in general. Just like saying "I worry about the kind of people they're hiring for this job nowadays" means you're opposed to people having jobs in general.
Not to mention how near impossible it is in some states (I'm looking at my own) to get a CCW due to things like the "good cause" clause. Apparently the desire for self defense isn't good enough.
http://time.com/63725/florida-concealed-weapons/
An interesting bill being debated right now and you won't even need that CCW, just a natural disaster.
I still remember when I got my first bastard sword while finishing tech training in Denver and having to store it in the First sergeant's weapon locker (along with the commander's sabres and the FS's blade set so was in good company.).
Turned up at the front desk with a bastard sword in hand laying back on one shoulder asking to see the first shirt, the expression on the poor orderly's face was priceless as he was probably thinking this was about to be a Highlander moment.
An interesting bill being debated right now and you won't even need that CCW, just a natural disaster.
I still remember when I got my first bastard sword while finishing tech training in Denver and having to store it in the First sergeant's weapon locker (along with the commander's sabres and the FS's blade set so was in good company.).
Turned up at the front desk with a bastard sword in hand laying back on one shoulder asking to see the first shirt, the expression on the poor orderly's face was priceless as he was probably thinking this was about to be a Highlander moment.
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