Laced Question, Friends, extend me your spurs |
Laced Question, Friends, extend me your spurs |
May 9 2004, 04:49 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 189 Joined: 21-April 04 From: Usually in the Nexus Member No.: 6,266 |
If a sam were to get, say, Titanium Bone Lacing and Retractable Spurs, then he would do more base damage with the spurs retracted (albeit only Stun) than with them exposed. Strength [M] Physical for Spurs, and Strength +4 [M] Stun retracted. So, if he has, say, a Strength of 5 then he would do 5M Physical with the Spurs extended and 9M Stun with them retracted. According to SR3, with bone lacing, the character with Bone Lacing can opt to have his attacks do physical damage at half of the power (rounded up), so this example character could opt to do 5M Physical without the spurs. So essentially, he would do the same damage with or without his spurs. Is this correct? Or would the bone lacing bonus (or part of it) extend, so to speak, to the spurs? I think the rules make my above example accurate, so my real question is should there be a house rule for this? Or better yet, have I missed a printed rule somewhere that already covers this?
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May 9 2004, 04:56 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
That is correct.
But apply some Dikote and the situation changes [(STR+1)S], especially since a pair of Spurs also gives you a +50% Strength bonus to Power on top of that. No house rule required. It's even more abundant which is the better choice when you consider how much Essence you lose with the Bone Lacing. Irk! |
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May 9 2004, 05:00 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 189 Joined: 21-April 04 From: Usually in the Nexus Member No.: 6,266 |
Daddy like
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May 9 2004, 05:09 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 673 Joined: 30-March 04 Member No.: 6,206 |
I'm not able to visualize what a spur is, and the SR3 description isn't helping much. Okay, attached to a bone? Set of three attached to a hand? Are they like wolverine's claws, then? I'm confused.
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May 9 2004, 05:17 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
That's exactly what they are. They don't have to come in three's, though. They could be just like the spike Robocop had (albeit without the induction datajack thing or whatever he used it as).
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May 9 2004, 05:20 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
Does that +50% Strength count with hand razors too, or is it just spurs?
The 'three spurs attached to the hand' would probably look like Wolverine, though bear in mind that they can't be retracted in that format. The single retractable spur would be akin to Wolverine just using the central blade, though perhaps slightly longer (say, about the length of your forearm). Also, the blades come from the back of the hand (fixed version) or back of the wrist (retractable) rather than from between the knuckles. -JH. |
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May 9 2004, 05:25 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Razors and Spurs. For some strange reason, Handblades are exempt.
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May 9 2004, 05:46 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 189 Joined: 21-April 04 From: Usually in the Nexus Member No.: 6,266 |
Where can I read up on the +50% strength for spurs? And why doesn't the description for spurs say Strength*1.5 [M] if it gives a fifty percent bonus? I have no doubt that you are accurate, I just want to show one of the other players that rule in print (he doesn't believe in the power of the forum). |
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May 9 2004, 05:52 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
SR3 p. 121, Hand Razors and Spurs. Actually after reading it, it only specifies spurs and razors at the beginning. The actual rule is a blanket rule for all cybernetic-implant weapons used in pairs.
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May 9 2004, 05:53 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
*Succumbs to temptation, breaks out BBB*
p121- a matched pair of spurs or razors allow the player to add +50% of his/her strength on top of base damage. So a pair of dikoted improved razors on a S5 character would do 11M?! God help us if he/she gets more than one net success... -JH. |
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May 9 2004, 06:18 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 189 Joined: 21-April 04 From: Usually in the Nexus Member No.: 6,266 |
Thanks fella's...owe ya one
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May 10 2004, 03:52 AM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Once again, don't forget that you can also gain extra dice if you A) take "Off Hand: Cyber Combat (Spurs)" or B) the "Abidexterity Edge" AND get the strength bonus if you have a dual set.
[Side note: what happens if you take both (Ambi and Off Hand)? Was there a rule in the CC that only the highest rating counts? I can't remember but I would assume so.] That said, I personaly would allow the spurs to look like pretty much anything the player wanted as long as the damage code stayed the same. This post has been edited by kevyn668: May 10 2004, 03:53 AM |
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May 10 2004, 07:49 PM
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#13
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
My personal fav was hatchet man's set. one going forward, the other backward, same arm.
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May 10 2004, 08:27 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
That's cool, but you don't get the power bonus for that. You only get the power bonus when you purchace a set for each hand or arm. |
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May 10 2004, 08:28 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Is that right?
If you use a pair, then take the off hand weapon skill, do you get both the bonus damage and the extra dice? |
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May 10 2004, 08:30 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Yep. The damage hike is a characteristic of the weapon, like Reach or the special abilities of a whip. The bonus dice Off-Hand Weapon Skill or Ambidexterity provides is a characteristic of skill. The weapon continues to have the same stats regardless of whether you're using Ambidexterity or not, just like every other weapon in the game.
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May 10 2004, 08:36 PM
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#17
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Personally I like the idea of the +%Str as a bonus for any occaision when you wield two mellee weapons (whips not included)
matched weapons= +50% off-hand lower code=+25% off-hand higher=Use off-hand as base and treat on hand as off for determining the power increase. |
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May 11 2004, 05:40 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Actually, I think a person with a matched set of spurs would have a damage code of: (Str*1.5)+1S So if you've got Str5, you'd do 8S (still not too shabby). Even more: you get to throw additional skill dice for your skill with the off hand weapon (+50% of your offhand skill). However, using both right- and left-hand spurs would require you to either get the ambidexterity edge, or take an additional skill in Offhand Cyberweapons. |
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May 11 2004, 05:47 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
<points to the "improved razors" part> The character would have 11M with those. :)
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May 11 2004, 05:53 AM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Ah ha! You caught me not paying attention again. Sorry, I'll shut up now. |
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May 11 2004, 05:03 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 189 Joined: 21-April 04 From: Usually in the Nexus Member No.: 6,266 |
I really appreciate the feedback fella's. So, let's do the math for the actual character at hand. I will only post the required stats.
Character Name: Meat Troll Street Sam Strength [9] Ambidexterity [2] edge (4 points) Wushu Kung Fu [6] Cyber-Implant Combat [5] / Specialization-Spurs [7] Off-Handed Cyber-Implant Combat [5] / Specialization-Spurs [7] Titanium Bone Lacing Retractable Spurs - Dikoted So, if I understand you fella's correctly, when using the spurs, I should be rolling a base 10 dice with a damage code of 14S. When using standard hand to hand combat (spurs retracted), I would be rolling 6 dice base damage 13M Stun/6M Physical. Is there any flaw in this math? |
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May 11 2004, 05:10 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Honestly? Unless you plan on attacking unarmed quite a bit, I'd drop Kung Fu to 4 and just get the Close Combat and Close Combat: Cyber-Implant Weapons maneuvers with it. Actually I'd recommend Pentjak-Silat since it has cooler abilities, but stick with Kung Fu if it fits your story better.
If you want or need to acquire another maneuver (like Whirling), just select another variant of the art at a rating of 4 and snag the two maneuvers that way. Continue until you have all the maneuvers you like. The Titanium Bone Lacing is wasted in this build, at least as it relates to the use of his spurs. You'd be better off with a Dermal Sheath and a few other implants. If you want to be able to stun an opponent, just get some Shock Hands and talk to your GM about "routing" them to your spurs instead of your fists. But yeah, if you want to fight unarmed as well as armed, you might as well keep one of your Martial Arts at 6. At least you won't totally be wasting the required maneuvers you need to get the ones for Cyber-Implant that way. :) And, ideally, you could just get Close Combat, Close Combat: Cyber, and Whirling and be done with it; use Whirling and unarmed combat when fighting a swam of opponents and use your spurs in one-on-one combat. Best of both worlds that way. |
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May 11 2004, 05:25 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
The problem with dermal enhancements of most sorts is that they are easy to spot and illegal. Personally, I prefer to have characters which don't get stopped by every cop who sees them (though the troll will probably be stopped by several cops, after the first one sees him and waits for backup before approaching him).
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May 11 2004, 05:38 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Dermal Sheathes are perfectly legal with a permit, and its going to get you pulled over about as much as carrying a pistol will. It can easily be written off as something a character got while serving in the military, too.
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May 11 2004, 06:08 PM
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#25
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
An ork or troll with obviously controlled cyber is still going to have to show permits quite a bit, and those fake IDs can't last forever. Not to mention that when it does fail, the sheath is Class A cyberware (3 year prison term in the UCAS).
If your character has a real SIN and really is ex-military, you should have any trouble with getting a permit for it. But using your real SIN has its own problems. |
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