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> SR4 - Fundamental decision
Machiavelli
post Apr 2 2015, 11:51 AM
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Hi Fellas,

long time no (proper) post….sorry for that, it has been quite busy in business- and price real-life during the last few months. But please be sure, that I have missed you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But now to something completely different:

- I created a character with astral hazing.
- I made him a Fomori.
- I want him to be a spirit and mage-hunter
- Our astral hazing houserule says, that magic cast into the field is reduced in force (so he is pretty magic-immune)
- Our group doesn´t allow astral hazing for mundane chars., so I had to become a mystic adept.
- I maxed magic and took 2 power points of adept powers (enhanced reflexes 2 (with geas and way of adept benefit))

So much for the background.

At first I was a bit desperate, because his dice pools were not that good. Of course he is lacking all the bonus dice cyber/bio or adept powers grant. Because of this, I thought about something I usually try to prevent…adding ´ware. I already planned to spend 4 points of essence on it. 3 points for bioware, 2 points for cyber (count only half). But now we completed the SOX-run and I earned incredibly 65 karma and I am allowed to initiate.

Now I have a problem. Should I skip the ´ware and stay full magic? Should I get some ware and initiate later, losing my current powers, replacing them with ´ware? What do you think, what would be the best way? What would be cost-efficient?

Please help the powergamer in me.^^
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Stingray
post Apr 2 2015, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 2 2015, 01:51 PM) *
Hi Fellas,

long time no (proper) post….sorry for that, it has been quite busy in business- and price real-life during the last few months. But please be sure, that I have missed you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But now to something completely different:

- I created a character with astral hazing.
- I made him a Fomori.
- I want him to be a spirit and mage-hunter
- Our astral hazing houserule says, that magic cast into the field is reduced in force (so he is pretty magic-immune)
- Our group doesn´t allow astral hazing for mundane chars., so I had to become a mystic adept.
- I maxed magic and took 2 power points of adept powers (enhanced reflexes 2 (with geas and way of adept benefit))

So much for the background.

At first I was a bit desperate, because his dice pools were not that good. Of course he is lacking all the bonus dice cyber/bio or adept powers grant. Because of this, I thought about something I usually try to prevent…adding ´ware. I already planned to spend 4 points of essence on it. 3 points for bioware, 2 points for cyber (count only half). But now we completed the SOX-run and I earned incredibly 65 karma and I am allowed to initiate.

Now I have a problem. Should I skip the ´ware and stay full magic? Should I get some ware and initiate later, losing my current powers, replacing them with ´ware? What do you think, what would be the best way? What would be cost-efficient?

Please help the powergamer in me.^^

..taking Astral perception,buying high rate weapon focus (No-dachi. Charc is Troll after all) Sprits die... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)
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Machiavelli
post Apr 2 2015, 01:48 PM
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If this would be the only things i have to fight. ^^
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Stingray
post Apr 2 2015, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 2 2015, 03:48 PM) *
If this would be the only things i have to fight. ^^

..decent armor,firearms (chosen by your skill selection)..etc..
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Machiavelli
post Apr 2 2015, 02:18 PM
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Jup, surely, but i think my intention was not explained well enough. At the moment i have skill-groups on 4. Inventory and weapons are also fine, but of course without ´ware or adept powers, there are no superhuman agility or additional dice for my pools. So while other chars, that are quite focused, have DP`s around 16-20, i have to live with 10 or 12. For a combat oriented char. not so super (we don´t play street level). So i wanted to become better and i need to do it quick. With ´ware, i could raise my DP´s easily to above mentioned levels. A bit of muscle toner, suprathoid gland (surely written wrong) and synthacardium...et voilá, we are talking. But i don´t know if i should go this way. Shall i rather spend karma in initiation and increased magic, eventually skipping metamagic for powerpoints, or should i go for ware, lose my magic and using my karma to raise and initiate from magic 2 again?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 2 2015, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 2 2015, 08:18 AM) *
Jup, surely, but i think my intention was not explained well enough. At the moment i have skill-groups on 4. Inventory and weapons are also fine, but of course without ´ware or adept powers, there are no superhuman agility or additional dice for my pools. So while other chars, that are quite focused, have DP`s around 16-20, i have to live with 10 or 12. For a combat oriented char. not so super (we don´t play street level). So i wanted to become better and i need to do it quick. With ´ware, i could raise my DP´s easily to above mentioned levels. A bit of muscle toner, suprathoid gland (surely written wrong) and synthacardium...et voilá, we are talking. But i don´t know if i should go this way. Shall i rather spend karma in initiation and increased magic, eventually skipping metamagic for powerpoints, or should i go for ware, lose my magic and using my karma to raise and initiate from magic 2 again?



Well, I am always a fan of Dice Penalty Mitigaters...
Eliminate the Penalties that others will suffer and you have an advantage. My Oni Ninja went that route and was far more powerful than his 12 Dice would generally indicate.

Hawkeye (Positive Quality) shifts Range Penalties (Thrown or Weapon based)
Adept Centering (Need a Few Grades of initiation to make payoff to be sure)
Heightened Concentration (Digital Grimoire) Adept Ability

While I am also a Fan of a point of Bioware (Generally for Muscle Toner), you just do not have the leeway for it without burning your adept abilities.
In addition, there is a small group that maintains that you can geomance your Background count so as not to suffer the penalties. While I am not in that camp, there is nothing wrong with Filtering it for short periods of time (which will give you a boost as you free up those Adept Points - I would assign them so that you can access them when you free them up). Some may not agree with that, but if you are going for the powergamer solution, it is a good route to take, even if you need a few Initiations (but with 65 Karma, you can make a few, to be sure - Group and Ordeal discounts for added goodness). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
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Stingray
post Apr 2 2015, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 2 2015, 04:18 PM) *
Jup, surely, but i think my intention was not explained well enough. At the moment i have skill-groups on 4. Inventory and weapons are also fine, but of course without ´ware or adept powers, there are no superhuman agility or additional dice for my pools. So while other chars, that are quite focused, have DP`s around 16-20, i have to live with 10 or 12. For a combat oriented char. not so super (we don´t play street level). So i wanted to become better and i need to do it quick. With ´ware, i could raise my DP´s easily to above mentioned levels. A bit of muscle toner, suprathoid gland (surely written wrong) and synthacardium...et voilá, we are talking. But i don´t know if i should go this way. Shall i rather spend karma in initiation and increased magic, eventually skipping metamagic for powerpoints, or should i go for ware, lose my magic and using my karma to raise and initiate from magic 2 again?

I would keep it clean adept..
..wait and raise attributes/skills. with karma ( with Troll's is sometimes costly) /or initate,use pp to take needed adept Powers (Improved Reflexes/Killing hands/Improved physical attribute)..choise is yours..
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Machiavelli
post Apr 2 2015, 03:01 PM
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What bothers me most, is that if i go for ´ware, i don´t know if i would still be able to increase my magical abilities. The BC of 4 would nullify my magic and if you have no magic left, i doubt that you can initiate. I was also interested in a mentor spirit, but does the contact to him fade, if you lose your magic (even if it is just temporary e.g. through natural BC)?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 2 2015, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Apr 2 2015, 09:01 AM) *
What bothers me most, is that if i go for ´ware, i don´t know if i would still be able to increase my magical abilities. The BC of 4 would nullify my magic and if you have no magic left, i doubt that you can initiate. I was also interested in a mentor spirit, but does the contact to him fade, if you lose your magic (even if it is just temporary e.g. through natural BC)?


Your Magic Rating is still there, it is just suppressed by the Background Count. That is why I suggest picking up the Filtering Metamagic. You can free that magic up by reducing or eliminating the penalty as you filter the BGC. Only temporarily, of course, but it should work, dependent upon your GM.
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Stingray
post Apr 2 2015, 04:37 PM
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..Auto-Injector + drug(s) fitted to combat (Kamikaze) (First aid to heal 6S when wear off).. (just lookout for Addiction), Battle-Tac lvl 4 to all ( those would give more dies/modifiers to keep up..)
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Udoshi
post Apr 4 2015, 01:17 AM
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Frankly you're going to get better use out of this concept by using a mystic adept, and instead of astral hazing, just spell designing an always-centered-on-you mana static.

Fluff it as SUPER counterspelling that suppresses the whole area - and as an area spell, you can influence the size and shape of it when you cast - as well as the force. A little bit of legwork will let you rock a rating 1 to a rating 12(theoretically) background count instead of the one astral hazing locks you into. This approach also preserves your adeptitude.

Sustain the spell via the usual shenanigans: Spirits, spirits of man casting them, foci, adept centering, heightened concentration, drugs - options are there.

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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Apr 4 2015, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Apr 3 2015, 06:17 PM) *
Frankly you're going to get better use out of this concept by using a mystic adept, and instead of astral hazing, just spell designing an always-centered-on-you mana static.

Fluff it as SUPER counterspelling that suppresses the whole area - and as an area spell, you can influence the size and shape of it when you cast - as well as the force. A little bit of legwork will let you rock a rating 1 to a rating 12(theoretically) background count instead of the one astral hazing locks you into. This approach also preserves your adeptitude.

Sustain the spell via the usual shenanigans: Spirits, spirits of man casting them, foci, adept centering, heightened concentration, drugs - options are there.


The Spell Aspected Mana Static is always a good one. Don't even really need to design it. it is in the Spell Table of Street Magic. My Occult Investigator made some great use out of that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The problem with being a Mystic Adept is that you will need to split your build across a lot of stats to be good across the board. It is a difficult build, and is often diluted through being to spread out, though it can work with a carefully constructed build.
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Ryu
post Apr 7 2015, 10:27 PM
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I consider Aspected Mana Static a QC artifact, regardless of the cause it should NOT exist.

As for the char in question...

You play a Fomori with Astral Hazing on top; had to be mystic adept added as requirement and invested into magic 6. Then you added Way of the Adept to be able to run the power you want. (Six PP, GM chooses which two are available.)

1.) Initiate multiple times, get Filtering. If your GM is -nicewordhere- you might be allowed to use Cleansing.

2.) Sunk costs approach. If you can live being effectivly mundane (+Astral Hazing), you can get your magic score down to two, change to "Way of the Burnout", and become a samurai with altogether worse stats but an occasionally nice extra. You can spend up to five points of essence and get Biocompatibility (Bioware) on top.

I´d prefer the second option, but I dislike playing adepts going in.
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Machiavelli
post Apr 8 2015, 07:39 AM
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I became mystic adept, mainly because i like options. Of course i lose one PP compared to a common adept, but i could have access to coounterspelling and some decent spells, if i later really change my mind. I see it as an invest in the future. I had a long talk with the GM yesterday and we spoke about your porposals. The result was, that i will most probably stick to full magic. I will initiate 2 times, buy 2 magic points. Skip metatechniques for PP´s and start buying adept powers. At the moment i have:

- adrenaline boost (agility)
- increased reflexes 2
- iron will 2

with 4 PP´s i would buy:

- upgrade increased reflexes to rating 3 (discount and geas)
- combat sense 6 (discount and geas)
- adrenaline boost (body and strenght)
- increased ability (longarms) 2 (discount and geas)

Imitating cyber with magic is nearly impossible. The costs are too high, so i go for longarms-expert with soaking skill. What do you think?
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