Why play a Street Samurai?, Are any mundane builds comparable to Magic/Resonance builds? Options

[Sendaz]

In real life life there are guys who have a thing for midgets, or like xxxxxl sized women, or like women so skinny you can't figure out how they haven't died from starvation... to each his own.

So why is it far fetched that instead of having the hots for the steroid laden human female bodybuilder, someone has the hots for an orc that has them muscles naturally.

It's not far fetched at all, which is why I made that comment. You will note others may have made jokes about the comment, but you get used to hearing the other, other white meat one a bit....

As I usually play an orc, I heartily endorse love for the metatype and I have even had my orc at a party we were crashing drop that as a line to a snooty elf princess once in front of her daisyeating boyfriend.

Ended up taking both home after the run. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[2XS]

How would a mundane counter magic, apart from APDS rounds? Like an infiltrater who needs to sneak past Astral watchdogs, or maximize your resistance to mental manipulations? Is there a way for a mundane to hamper someone's ability to use magic, like maybe a manatech grenade that adds background count or something?

[Sendaz]

You can check out some neat manatech from 4th ed in Arsenal pgs 64-67,includign the following:

Esprit “Petite Brume” Grenade: In early 2069, the druids of
Brittany and French weapons manufacturer Esprit Industries made
a breakthrough in manatech: a smoke grenade that impedes astral
perception. The puck-shaped grenade dispenses a cloud of fl uorescing
astral bacteria strain II-Beta (FAB-IIb) within a fine suspension of water
droplets, forming a mist that obscures physical and astral perception.
Th e “Petite Brume” Grenade releases a cloud of light mist
over an area with a diameter of 10 meters. The mist obscures vision,
applying visibility modifiers for light mist to relevant tests.
FAB-IIb does not form an astral barrier; it prevents astral movement
through the mist faster than 100 meters per Combat Turn
and increases the threshold for Assensing Tests by 2 when looking
through the mist. It lasts for approximately 4 Combat Turns (less
in windy areas, longer in confined areas at the gamemaster’s discretion).
Use the rules for Grenades, p.145, SR4.

It won't stop you from being spotted full stop, but can obscure the playing field a bit.

[Neraph]

Was that sarcasm?

I can't recall either being used in a serious way, only as a joke. But back then Lasers were pretty much mythical and Thor shots were cows falling from the sky.

No, it wasn't. You can start the game with a laser rifle, and I've long since learned never to underestimate the resourcefulness of players. If they want something enough, they'll find a way to have it.

[2XS]

It seeems that playing a mundane leaves a fairly large hole in your defenses, being unable to counterspell. What's the best way to go about defending from save-or-die spells like Turn to Goo or mental manipulations if you don't have a caster in the party?

[Iduno]

With mundanes only? I guess Astral Hazing or the more subtle magic resistance quality. Although if you don't have defenses against something, your fixer (and GM) probably shouldn't be putting you up against those kinds of challenges much. Sure, it'll still happen once in a while, but that's why you geek the mage first.

[hyzmarca]

You can check out some neat manatech from 4th ed in Arsenal pgs 64-67,includign the following:


It won't stop you from being spotted full stop, but can obscure the playing field a bit.

For funsies, replace the FAB II with FAB III

[tisoz]

How would a mundane counter magic, apart from APDS rounds? Like an infiltrater who needs to sneak past Astral watchdogs, or maximize your resistance to mental manipulations? Is there a way for a mundane to hamper someone's ability to use magic, like maybe a manatech grenade that adds background count or something?

I was going to answer, but don't feel like arguing.

Think perception tests, think imitating those ignored by astral watchdogs. Think what Attribute is targeted and quit making it a dump stat.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Think perception tests, think imitating those ignored by astral watchdogs. Think what Attribute is targeted and quit making it a dump stat.

^^^ This.... SO. Much. This... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

The absolute most powerful character I've ever seen in SR in terms of survivability and stopping power is a stealth specialist sniper. It's SR's version of Skyrim's stealth archer, complete with the same qualities to make the game trivial.

[KnightAries]

The absolute most powerful character I've ever seen in SR in terms of survivability and stopping power is a stealth specialist sniper. It's SR's version of Skyrim's stealth archer, complete with the same qualities to make the game trivial.

Bullets... The great Equalizer...

Yup, I had to.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[2XS]

Perhaps I should've been more specific.

So I'm putting stuff into Willpower, taking the Magic Resistance quality, and have a low Essence; is there anything else I might be missing?

I prefer to hide-in-shadows kind of sneak rather than "bluff" sneak, though doing so when you can be spotted sneaking by an invisible watch dog on another plane of existence makes it problematic. I think there's a drug that would let me astrally perceive so I could at least tell which way the magical beasty was looking, though I can't quite remember if you gain astral perception or if it caused you to astrally project.

Anyone have something constructive they'd like to add? Find some kind of magical Kryptonite that gave their (non-cyber-zombie) a significant edge when battling magic users?

[tisoz]

I wasn't being a condescending douchebag, but trying to point you toward concepts from the edition I know best that you apparently are not playing, which I am not sure still apply.

Have a nice day.

[Sendaz]

Deepweed forces an awakened to astrally perceive, Shade works on mundanes, but forces even a mundane to astrally project.

You as a mundane suddenly projecting might be a really bad idea as it just opens you up to even more magic based attacks while your body back on the physical suddenly goes limp.

One on One with a mage you will face some difficulties, but that doesn't mean you can't win.

First thing is cheat.

Direct LOS at close to medium range between you and the mage is bad for you, unless you totally outclass them in the initiative department via souped up reflexes, because if the mage can see you he can blast/control/other you in a number of ways.
Use your smartgun link and guncam to shoot around corners.

Yes he can still drop an AOE type spell, but try to pick your terrain to limit these options.
Sitting next to something the mage won't want to wreck with an AOE will force them to more targeted options.

Again Smoke grenades can still help to some degree as can the fab based ones mentioned above.

There are a number of discussion threads about moving in stealth against astral observations, it may pay to look through some of them.

Snipe from a distance when possible, unless he has some binoculars handy he probably wont see you from a quarter klick out.
This may run into probs with the GM since he wont want the whole game devolving into SniperRun, but argue for its judicious usage given special circumstances and don't abuse it.

Use numbers to your advantage. There are a limited number of mages and other things magical in the world, use superior numbers to overwhelm/overload/distract them.
It may mean hiring street ganger muscle to storm the far fence thus drawing security's attention while you sneak in the side entrance or even just walk in the front door via a disguise. Or have a miniswarm of small drones harass the spirit while you go by.
Give the magical elements more than they can handle. Just be sure to have any forces keep well spread out so a single AOE spell or ability does not negate them in one blow.

Technology doesn't have drain, use that fact. They have fireballs, you have grenades. They have mind control, you have a plethora of drugs that can mess someone up.
A buddy with a chemistry degree, some dmso and some grenade making skills can give you some fun toys to add to your arsenal and you probably won't pass out from chucking just a few unless your aim is reaaalllly bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Drones are good but can be expensive. While they can not be directly mind controlled or manabombed, physical spells will chew them up but they are replacable whereas you are not.
Again, numbers play a part here.. keep harassing the mages with mooks/devices so they pile up the drain and can be easy pickings by the time you decide to step in to finish them.

Spirits will be a bit more work since drain is not an issue for them, but there are tons of energy based toys like tasers/S&S/lasers and such that can help disrupt a spirit just fine.
Again a pile of mooks/drones armed with these can disrupt low to moderate force entities or at least keep the bigger ones occupied while you go about your business.

You might complain about how using mooks/devices is not your style, but remember you against a spirit is the same as a lone soldier against a tank, it's two totally different categories of abilities clashing.
You have to be prepared to adapt your tactics accordingly.

There is no one 'magic bullet' (except for the one through the back of a mage's head) that can cure all your magical woes, otherwise everyone would be using it already. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[KnightAries]

Perhaps I should've been more specific.

So I'm putting stuff into Willpower, taking the Magic Resistance quality, and have a low Essence; is there anything else I might be missing?

I prefer to hide-in-shadows kind of sneak rather than "bluff" sneak, though doing so when you can be spotted sneaking by an invisible watch dog on another plane of existence makes it problematic. I think there's a drug that would let me astrally perceive so I could at least tell which way the magical beasty was looking, though I can't quite remember if you gain astral perception or if it caused you to astrally project.

Anyone have something constructive they'd like to add? Find some kind of magical Kryptonite that gave their (non-cyber-zombie) a significant edge when battling magic users?

Murky Link, maybe...

You could take arcane arrester instead of Magic resistance though it is a Metagenic quality.

EDIT: Corrected the post about arcane arrester.

[2XS]

Good stuff. While I might prefer to avoid using distractions (I've been on a real "Batman" kick lately) I think they'd be consistent with the character in certain situations. I plan on using groups of small, chameleon coated drones for situational awareness and battle-tac bonuses, but detecting/avoiding astral observers is throwing me for a loop.

I'll try searching, here and in Google.

[Sendaz]

Part of your dilemma is anything that could let you detect astral entities either gives you away (say using a Lucifer lantern/using MADs to perceive/project) or gives you warning far too late (the astral mosses that glow when an astral entity passes very close)

Tisoz had very good advice in imitating those the astral watchdogs ignore.

Remember the astral entity does not have an inate sense of your intentions, it can not tell you are there to rob the place.
To them you are just another murky grey shadow among other shadows going through the place.
Astral surveillance is mostly there to detect and deal with magical threats, as a mundane you are sort of off their radar unless they have specific orders otherwise.
Physical security is generally left to physical forces because it's cheaper and easier to use a couple of normal guards and slew of cameras than keep loads of mages on call. Your magical security forces will usually be 1-2 mages and even then they are again more about maintaining a watch for magical stuff.

So yeah, if there is a huge fire elemental guarding a hallway that is there to stop everyone going through, then that is a problem, but how often are you really going to see that when a couple of security checkpoint can do the same job easier?

Having said spirit playing doorman also means that no one else is getting through unless they have been given a list of exceptions.
So maybe they do not bother anyone wearing a particular item/badge/uniform because again they are not going to 'know' who is actually working for the company or not in most circumstances.
Find out what they allow through and use that to gain entry, because hey if the spirit is told not to mess with anyone wearing the ruby lined badge they won't mess with you so long as you have one, even if you totally do not look like you belong their otherwise.
Something a live guard probably would raise a question with if your street troll waved the ruby badge at him after hours without a damn good story to back it up.
If it is one of those situations where the spirit is set to not let anyone through full stop, ie the mage set them to guard the hall and let none pass thru at all until daybreak , then break out the tasers & lasers and serve it up with a little shake 'n bake or wait for shift change with the first rays of the morning sun.

[KCKitsune]

You know I was thinking, if you can force the spirit to physically manifest and the have a dragonfly with a one or two shot aerosol dispenser for FAB III. Use the gangers to manifest and then squirt. The spirit is going to either disperse or be let go so as to save itself. Sure, it's expensive, but as your party is non-mages (or if there is a mage in the group he does NOT crash at the rigger's place), it won't affect you.