age milestones for metahumans Options

[Beta]

(I originally asked this on another forum, then realized after the fact that for this sort of lore, dumpshock tends to be a much better source.)

I’m pretty sure that this must have been covered in one of the books over the years, but I’d not seen it detailed back in 1st edition when I was a player, and it doesn’t seem to be in any of the 5th edition books that I’ve gotten my paws on so far (I haven’t picked up Run Faster yet). I hope someone can educate me, or at least point me at the right source book.

For the main meta-humans, at what age do they:
- hit physical maturity (i.e. have their full height, look more or less mature. For humans this is typically around 16-18) I've seen suggestion that for orcs this might be as early as 12, although if both that and their litter sizes is true, I'd hate to be the one feeding the lot of them -- one human boy in the early teen growth spurt was bad enough, orcs are achieving twice the weight in a fair bit less time!

- begin to show noticeable signs of aging aka hit some definition of middle-age (noticeable amounts of grey hair, more wrinkles around the eyes, maybe starting to need reading glasses. For humans this will be in their forties)

- begin to more rapidly decline/ be ‘old’ (in our society this is generally in the 70s, where people start losing muscle and bone mass fairly rapidly)

I started off wondering how the first UGE elves and dwarves were looking in 2075, now that they are in their sixties -- I was thinking of making an elf character who had been in prison for fifty years and was wondering if he'd look at all aged -- but it led me to the broader question.

[Stahlseele]

I don't think there ever were any hard numbers on this, only general life expectancy numbers.
Dorfs have an expected life time of 200+ years if i remember that correctly. Elves are still unknown.
Orks have a life expectancy of 40 and Trolls of 50 years. Humans are at about 80 i think.
And yes, orks and trolls both do physically mature much much faster than humans.
Yes, at 13, you can expect an ork "girl" to have a "litter" of 4 to 6, which is why they have such immense troubles.

UGE people are . . different somehow . . though that only was for people who changed from human to something else.
They basically kept the human numbers, so an UGE/Goblinized Ork will not have the 40 years of life expectancy, but that of a regular human.
Same for Trolls. Dorfs and Elves are only born, never changed, so they are always at the same numbers.

[Beta]

According to the timeline in the ShadowRun Wiki (which I admit may not be correct in all matters!), in 2011:

January 13: The first baby is born with the condition that will later be described as Unexplained Genetic Expression.

March 14: Newsweek magazine is the first media outlet that describes UGE babies as "elves" and "dwarfs."

and following the UGE link:

Unexplained Genetic Expression (UGE) was first recorded in 2011, when human mothers gave birth to children that looked like elves or dwarfs. Medical researchers designated these children UGE babies, and many parents feared these children

I think it was termed 'goblinization' for those who turned into orcs and trolls from humans (and that held off until 2021).

If I'm off base with the above, please do correct me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[lokii]

If you have a look at the first table in this Shadowhelix article: http://shadowhelix.pegasus.de/Metamenschheit#.C3.9Cbersicht there is a column for the natural optimal life span ("Maximallebensspanne"). This is based on Earthdawn information, so take the numbers with a grain of salt. The footnote [E 1] gives an explanation. Tell me if you need a translation. Using the life span value a conceivable though not necessarily correct way of judging a particular metahuman age would be using humans as a model by "rescaling" to their life span:

So for example a sixty year old dwarf:

60/150 * 120 ~ 48 in human years

Obviously it doesn't work out for the lower end, let's take a fourty year old elf:

40/400 * 120 ~ 12 in human years

but of course the elf is already an adult.

You shouldn't forget though, that there are rejuvenation treatments available.

[Stahlseele]

If you want to read a bit more, you can also go to denver.
http://denver.wikidot.com/info:metahumanity

[hermit]

There's also the matter of First Generation metahumans.

First Gen/goblinized Orks and Trolls age differently from born orks and trolls - they grow significantly older, much more like humans.

First Gen elves are, according to SRR:HK, functionally immortal. Whether this extends only to Spikes or also to ordinary first generation elves is a bit unclear, but it's an interesting thought nonetheless. Personally I like this far better than an immortality gene passed on by aeons-long conspiracies of immortal elves.

Nothing about first generatiin dwarfs, but they should be longer-lived too.

And, since Earthdawn still is considered the accepted Fourth World, ED timetables for metahuman aging are a good guess.

[EKBT81]

IIRC according to the 2e Tir Tairngire sourcebook, elves mature at the same speed as humans until their mid-twenties, then their "aging curve" flattens off. So, environmental factors not withstanding, a sixty year old elf who led a generally healthy life could certainly look about mid/late-twentyish.
However I'd guess that unless in niche cases (like high-ranking white collar crooks), fifty years of prison aren't exactly a very healthy environment, so that character might show some more "wear"?

For the main meta-humans, at what age do they:
- hit physical maturity (i.e. have their full height, look more or less mature. For humans this is typically around 16-18) I've seen suggestion that for orcs this might be as early as 12, although if both that and their litter sizes is true, I'd hate to be the one feeding the lot of them -- one human boy in the early teen growth spurt was bad enough, orcs are achieving twice the weight in a fair bit less time!

Yeah, it seems that setting writers often didn't take the effects the stated aging and birth rates for orks should have into account (IIRC both the first Seattle Sourcebook and the SR3 New Seattle book gave the same percentage of orks amongst the population despite being set about a decade apart). That's what led my old table to houserule the numbers for ork aging up, presuming that the low life expectancy was more due to social factors, and their birth numbers down.

[Sengir]

I know there are others, but for starters, Seattle 2072, page 152:

Part of this is one of Kraal’s pet causes: changing educational and legal benchmarks for orks. Although he’s only 27 years old and holder of a Masters in Social Work, Janus Kraal is well past middle age by ork standards, given an average lifespan of 38.5 years for natural-born orks (which has increased only slightly in the past few decades). On the other hand, orks reach physical maturity around the age of 10–12 years, so an ork can be an “adult” for years before being legally old enough to be considered one. Kraal and others argue that human standards of development and maturity cannot be applied to orks or other metahumans, who should have their own standards. Thus far, the argument hasn’t met with a lot of success and has been shouted down as an example of “special rights” demanded by orks.

Of course, this also is yet another example of people not understanding how averages work: The total average life expectancy is mostly a measure of how many people die prematurely, especially at a very young age, not of old they can get. In the 19th century life expectancy was around ~45 years, that does not mean people dropped dead at 50 and were considered living miracles at 55, it means that many never made a two-digit age. To get the maximum lifespan, you'd have to look at other metrics, for example the average of the oldest X%.
So take those statements with a huge grain of salt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Neraph]

And, since Earthdawn still is considered the accepted Fourth World, ED timetables for metahuman aging are a good guess.

Whenever someone says SR = ED: my thoughts.

[lokii]

Whenever someone says SR = ED: my thoughts.

Well, then it's good thing nobody made that claim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Just want to point out... No one in the 6th world has seen an elf or dwarf grow old or die from age. For all we know they might all be immortal buggers planning to take over the world, sure the greats might have an idea about life expectancy but do you really trust what a dragon say?

[Sendaz]

To be fair most shadowrunners rarely see anyone they know die of old age, usually because they or their buddy die of other causes first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, then it's good thing nobody made that claim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

A lot of people make that Claim...

[lokii]

My reading of "SR = ED" is very literal.

[Neraph]

It was meant to be. A lot of people think that SR and ED are the same thing, just a full Age of Mundane apart. While that theory is entertaining, perhaps, and even may have some evidence for it, it's just like the theory that ET the Extra Terrestrial is from Star Wars or that Darth Vader and Indiana Jones were plotting together to kill Hitler - it's fanciful at best, deluded at worst.

[KnightAries]

It was meant to be. A lot of people think that SR and ED are the same thing, just a full Age of Mundane apart. While that theory is entertaining, perhaps, and even may have some evidence for it, it's just like the theory that ET the Extra Terrestrial is from Star Wars or that Darth Vader and Indiana Jones were plotting together to kill Hitler - it's fanciful at best, deluded at worst.

Except if IRC while both ED and SR were under FASA they actually said that was the case (different systems) but the same world with 1 age in-between. Only after they moved to different companies did the fall apart.

[Neraph]

That's still nothing more (especially now - retcon is a force for good and for bad) than a person or group of people going "hey look at the complex inside joke we made." It's not as funny as they think it was.

[lokii]

Regardless of what one thinks of the crossover Earthdawn information should be fair game for interpreting the Shadowrun background.

[Neraph]

No more so than Dungeons and Dragons, the collected Middle Earth works, or any real-world mythos would.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Regardless of what one thinks of the crossover Earthdawn information should be fair game for interpreting the Shadowrun background.

Why?

[KnightAries]

Regardless of what one thinks of the crossover Earthdawn information should be fair game for interpreting the Shadowrun background.

As I've never owned or played ED..... I don't interpret it that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Sengir]

No more so than Dungeons and Dragons, the collected Middle Earth works, or any real-world mythos would.

The Middle Earth setting was originally written by FASA as a prequel to SR? The more you know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Sendaz]

The Middle Earth setting was originally written by FASA as a prequel to SR? The more you know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Tolkien's original draft did have the elves using Maxim machine guns alongside steampowered mecha-dwarves, but his editor shot it down. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Though the rules for riding Rigged Ents was pretty cool and still better than 2 of the rigger editions.

[Deckbeard]

Tolkien's original draft did have the elves using Maxim machine guns alongside steampowered mecha-dwarves, but his editor shot it down. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Though the rules for riding Rigged Ents was pretty cool and still better than 2 of the rigger editions.

Yah but the rules for Eagles where so OP.

[Sengir]

Yah but the rules for Eagles where so OP.

Also, the build-your-own-Ent rules from the third printing were totally bonkers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)