HMHVV Revamped and Streamlined, Reworking the various strains and taxonomy Options

[Sengir]

But the most recent addition that quite supports my point of view was from the recent novel

Novels are not rulebooks, or else I want my super jump from Wired Reflexes because that was in some novel I can't remember, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
The "advanced character" rulebooks list only one option with any kind of special compulsions and that one's not even an Infected, it's the beady-eyed Arab who's compelled to adhere to racist stereotypes.

The best one I’ve found so far is MRDS (Magic Resistance Deficiency Syndrome) from GURPS Technomancer, with is a much better allegory for AIDS than canon HMHVV ever was.

Why not the "Aura Deficiency Syndrome" from Augmentation?


@Sendaz:
Using spells to preserve tissue samples reminds me of something else I always thought cool: Infected (meta)magic. I know, class-specific spells are a huge can of worms, but at least NPCs could get some scary metamagics from sinister spirits of the darkest metaplanes...

[Sendaz]

@ Sengir
Aye. They did introduce a few spells that only work on HMHVV types like Ghoulish Strength and Vampiric Speed so there is precedence.

Strangely they didn't tie them to the Essence pool, ie have to burn off a point or two of stolen ess to fuel the special magics, but that may be due to Ghouls not having the variable Ess pool like the other Infected.

Meta(magics) could be even nastier, building on the sacrifice magics.
Blood Wards that do nothing to Vamps but regular living beings pay a blood toll if they try to cross it. Handy for keeping the herds in line.
Spending blood to make Illusions semi-solid, not unlike Naruto Shadow clone jutsu, solid enough to land a physical hit or two but not as tough as the original if counterattacked.

Might be something to throw Patrick's way as he may already have something in the works.

[JanessaVR]

Novels are not rulebooks...

To be sure, they're not. But I note that the main character of Crimson is the same one who shows up for a lengthy show-and-tell session with the denizens of JackPoint in SR5 Run Faster, talking about HMHVV and his experiences as a vampire, so an actual rulebook is clearly acknowledging the events of that novel.

[Sengir]

To be sure, they're not. But I note that the main character of Crimson is the same one who shows up for a lengthy show-and-tell session with the denizens of JackPoint in SR5 Run Faster, talking about HMHVV and his experiences as a vampire, so an actual rulebook is clearly acknowledging the events of that novel.

No, an actual rulebook is merely using a novel character as a shadowtalker, which is extremely non-noteworthy. Twist, Dodger and other characters from the Secrets of Power books also showed up as shadowtalkers, that doesn't make the novels authoritative sources for game rules.

@Sendaz: Let me rephrase, "Infected (meta)magic which does something unique" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[JanessaVR]

No, an actual rulebook is merely using a novel character as a shadowtalker, which is extremely non-noteworthy. Twist, Dodger and other characters from the Secrets of Power books also showed up as shadowtalkers, that doesn't make the novels authoritative sources for game rules.

@Sendaz: Let me rephrase, "Infected (meta)magic which does something unique" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

They talk about this in SR4 Storm Front and SR5 Run Faster in addition to Crimson. The hunger for the Infected has gotten much more intense and their sunlight sensitivity has increased.


In SR4 Storm Front
See the chapter “Sleeping with the Enemy,” where this is discussed, among other Infected issues.

In SR5 Run Faster
Compare the Allergy (Sunlight) for ghouls and vampires in SR4 Runner’s Companion to this book. Ghouls went from Mild to Moderate, and vampires went from Moderate to Severe. It also mentions “The virus has mutated since its first appearance, and the last couple of years have caused some of the most pronounced changes to its behavior. The most notable changes have been in Strain I and Strain III Infected, though there have been changes in Strain II as well.” This is outright rules text, right there in black and white, not Shadowtalk.


If you don’t want to include in this your campaign, well, far be it from me to cast stones on someone else’s house rules (this thread is ostensibly about my house rules, after all), but to assert this isn’t happening in canon is willful ignorance. This is the same thing from 3 different sources. House rule it away if you wish, but it’s canon.

[Sengir]

It also mentions “The virus has mutated since its first appearance, and the last couple of years have caused some of the most pronounced changes to its behavior. The most notable changes have been in Strain I and Strain III Infected, though there have been changes in Strain II as well.” This is outright rules text, right there in black and white, not Shadowtalk.

...and it's reflected by the more severe allergies, Infected gradually "growing" their powers and several detail changes. Whereas the increased hunger is conspicuously absent, although I'm sure PG would have it in if he wanted to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[JanessaVR]

...and it's reflected by the more severe allergies, Infected gradually "growing" their powers and several detail changes. Whereas the increased hunger is conspicuously absent, although I'm sure PG would have it in if he wanted to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Unless, of course, you examine SR4 Runner's Companion, p. 61 and then examine the SR5 Core Rules, pp. 401, 404-405, which will alert you to the fact that they used to need about 1 pound of flesh per week, but now need that much per day. Sounds like one heck of an increased appetite to me.

[Sengir]

Unless, of course, you examine SR4 Runner's Companion, p. 61 and then examine the SR5 Core Rules, pp. 401, 404-405, which will alert you to the fact that they used to need about 1 pound of flesh per week, but now need that much per day. Sounds like one heck of an increased appetite to me.

As previously stated it's not really a significant change

[JanessaVR]

As previously stated it's not really a significant change

Look, you clearly just don't want to accept their increased appetite, no matter how many sources it appears in, so I'm just writing this off as your personal house rules on this issue.

[binarywraith]

Other Rules

Any PC infected and transformed by either virus immediately becomes an NPC under GM control; tell the player to roll up another character.

This is the most important part of these rules for me, and a standard house rule in my games. Infected should not be PCs, full stop, end of story. They just cause too much trouble for the rest of the players and get in the way of everyone's fun, because inevitably the campaign becomes all about the Infected as the rest of the players decide that since they have to deal with all those issues anyway, they might as well get bit in for the powers.

[Sengir]

Look, you clearly just don't want to accept their increased appetite, no matter how many sources it appears in, so I'm just writing this off as your personal house rules on this issue.

Well that of course explains a lot, if you consider the correct result of the equation "0.05 * 75 kg" (and 75 Kilos is probably on the low end) to be a personal house rule it's no wonder we can't reach an agreement...

Under the old 5 % rule, a ghoul weighting 75 kilos (or 11 st, 11 lb, 5 oz, and ~9 dr) needs 3.75 kilos of meat a week, which when spread out evenly across all days of the week means ~535 grams (~19 oz) per day. A bit more than half a kilo of steak sounds like quite a nice fit for "one meal a day".

[Patrick Goodman]

The 1% vs 5% thing was introduced in editorial a bit before I returned to the fold to do anything with the Infected. Sengir's math seems reasonable to me, however, if one sticks with the "one meal a day" from Run Faster (which was done in editorial, also, to keep things a little more fluid from table to table, so to speak).

The amount of human flesh they have to eat HAS NOT CHANGED, at least not significantly, since 4e. The hunger pains, the desire, has been on the rise, though I deliberately decided not to include a mechanism for that in the game rules because different GMs and different tables are going to want to handle things differently, and I've never been one as a writer to tell the players how to do things at their table.

And no, I don't read these threads that much. Someone pointed this out to me and I thought I'd drop in and see what was up. I'll pop in and out the next day or so to see if there's anything that needs clarification, but don't expect me to hang around much.

[Starmage21]

The 1% vs 5% thing was introduced in editorial a bit before I returned to the fold to do anything with the Infected. Sengir's math seems reasonable to me, however, if one sticks with the "one meal a day" from Run Faster (which was done in editorial, also, to keep things a little more fluid from table to table, so to speak).

The amount of human flesh they have to eat HAS NOT CHANGED, at least not significantly, since 4e. The hunger pains, the desire, has been on the rise, though I deliberately decided not to include a mechanism for that in the game rules because different GMs and different tables are going to want to handle things differently, and I've never been one as a writer to tell the players how to do things at their table.

And no, I don't read these threads that much. Someone pointed this out to me and I thought I'd drop in and see what was up. I'll pop in and out the next day or so to see if there's anything that needs clarification, but don't expect me to hang around much.

So their hunger and drive is being dialed up, and even though their requirements have not changed, they are being driven to gorge/overindulge?

[Sendaz]

So their hunger and drive is being dialed up, and even though their requirements have not changed, they are being driven to gorge/overindulge?

Depends on how you define overindulge. They eat, they get full, but like a Chinese meal a few hours later you are hungry again.

So it's not like they are trying to eat a whole human at one sitting as no matter how much they eat now, pretty soon the hunger comes a knocking.

It's a bit like an addiction. They don't need those bites between meals - they know they just ate, but the craving is leaving you jonesing for the Jones next door.

[JanessaVR]

Depends on how you define overindulge. They eat, they get full, but like a Chinese meal a few hours later you are hungry again.

So it's not like they are trying to eat a whole human at one sitting as no matter how much they eat now, pretty soon the hunger comes a knocking.

It's a bit like an addiction. They don't need those bites between meals - they know they just ate, but the craving is leaving you jonesing for the Jones next door.

Which, as I've said, is all the more reason to cure HMHVV & HMHGV with copious amounts of fire, posthaste.

[Sengir]

if one sticks with the "one meal a day" from Run Faster (which was done in editorial, also, to keep things a little more fluid from table to table, so to speak).

Wait, is there anything on the meal frequency in Run Fasta? I never found anything more concrete than the "one meal per day unelss stated otherwise" and assumed it was intentionally left vague.

And no, I don't read these threads that much. Someone pointed this out to me and I thought I'd drop in and see what was up. I'll pop in and out the next day or so to see if there's anything that needs clarification, but don't expect me to hang around much.

Which is a shame, really

[Sendaz]

And no, I don't read these threads that much. Someone pointed this out to me and I thought I'd drop in and see what was up. I'll pop in and out the next day or so to see if there's anything that needs clarification, but don't expect me to hang around much.

Well we do always appreciate you dropping by when you can.

Know it's probably not good for your inner peace some days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Or other's inner peace....

Goodman's Significant Other: What are you reading dear.

Patrick Goodman: Oh, just catching up on this thread with an interesting rewrite idea on Infected with a side debate on the best way to chop, dry and store human bodies along with the recommended daily allowance.

GSO: ........

Patrick Goodman: O_O; Puppies, I meant this lovely upbeat thread about happy bounding, totally alive, puppies...

GSO: ........

Patrick Goodman: >_<

[Patrick Goodman]

My wife knows what I write. She got some amusement out of metajerky.

[Sendaz]

Good to see she has a sense of humour. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That or she now knows how to get rid of a body if need be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)