IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Magical Signatures, How can they be of much use in forensics?
JanessaVR
post May 9 2016, 07:25 PM
Post #1


Awakened Master Ninja
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 873
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Sacramento, CA
Member No.: 10,844



Iím curious if anyone else has come across an answer for this anywhere in the rulebooks, as I havenít. Itís noted that magical criminals had better be good at either leaving no astral signatures behind or erasing them before leaving the scene of the crime, but I donít see how it matters all that much, legally speaking.

This is because, in Shadowrun, magic doesnít play well with technologyÖso how exactly is anyone storing a record of the astral signatures of a magical criminal? Sure, an Awakened cop can astrally assense the scene and view the signature, but whatís he going to do with it then? Itís not a fingerprint. It canít be lifted from the scene, scanned into a computer and checked against a database. If the same criminal commits a crime someone else, whatís the local Awakened cop going to do Ė call all the other Awakened cops he knows and ask if they remember the magical signature heís found? And thatís assuming that he can even describe it well enough.

ďWell, you see, someone robbed a bank with magic today, and threw around all kinds of spells. The signature looked like, um, well, it was all swirly, with lots of different colors. Does that sound like any Awakened criminals youíve come across?Ē If it canít be objectively recorded and digitized, and thus used for later comparison, then what practical use is it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sendaz
post May 9 2016, 07:42 PM
Post #2


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,038
Joined: 23-March 05
From: The heart of Rywfol Emwolb Industries
Member No.: 7,216



Well the first thing to comes to mind is the critter power Search.

If the MageCop can sift through the scene and determine the Signature, they could sic a spirit on it as the Search power allows them to search for anything for which their summoner can provide them a mental image, which I imagine could also include their visualization of the signature.
Even if it can't find the actual perp, it may lead to other clues/bits that could be used for a more serious ritual search.

Beyond that is does seem kind of vague. At some tables, they have had Lonestar employ the use of special crystals that a magecop can 'imprint' with the signature they have been exposed to.

Other mages can then view the signature for referencing, but it can not be copied electronically, so short of imprinting several crystals with that particular signature, usually only one or two will exist for the cops to use in their ongoing investigation.

Otherwise if a particular MO crops up in another city, the Magecop may find himself booked on a flight out to the distant crimescene to see if the sigs match up.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mantis
post May 9 2016, 08:24 PM
Post #3


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,102
Joined: 23-August 09
From: Vancouver, Canada
Member No.: 17,538



Well they could be using Quicksilver Mana Sensitive Film Cameras (Arsenal, pg 67) which can be used to capture astral signatures in addition to other astral things and saving those to a database for comparison. So clean up your mess mages or the cops will take a photo and use it against you.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JanessaVR
post May 9 2016, 08:41 PM
Post #4


Awakened Master Ninja
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 873
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Sacramento, CA
Member No.: 10,844



QUOTE (Mantis @ May 9 2016, 01:24 PM) *
Well they could be using Quicksilver Mana Sensitive Film Cameras (Arsenal, pg 67) which can be used to capture astral signatures in addition to other astral things and saving those to a database for comparison. So clean up your mess mages or the cops will take a photo and use it against you.

Ok, I've gone and checked out this entry in Arsenal. If I'm reading it right, the resulting photo can be digitized. I think that does it - the cops can create a searchable database of magical signatures (if they can get a Quicksilver MSF Camera to the scene of the crime before the astral signatures fade).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Beta
post May 9 2016, 09:56 PM
Post #5


Shooting Target
****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 1,712
Joined: 21-July 14
From: Northern UCAS (with regular trips to Quebec)
Member No.: 190,206



Also you can trace a magician from his spell signatures (although harder as they fade). So the police (corp sec, wiz gang -- whoever) can potentially follow to wherever it is you go after a run, then send disgusting amount of forces to ruin your day. Sure, when it comes to police, in court it would come down to the word of a highly respected professional forensic mage against that of a rogue, SIN-less, criminal mage, and I'm sure the judge (or possible jury) would completely keep an open mind about the chance that the professional was wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(This is why you want to get behind a good mana barrier, pronto, if you don't have the opportunity to erase your spell signatures. Threshold for tracing goes up by the mana barrier rating). Nice to have a second residence with a good lodge, or have a room arranged in the sort of very exclusive hotel that offers strong wards around its rooms.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JanessaVR
post May 9 2016, 10:12 PM
Post #6


Awakened Master Ninja
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 873
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Sacramento, CA
Member No.: 10,844



QUOTE (Betx @ May 9 2016, 02:56 PM) *
Also you can trace a magician from his spell signatures (although harder as they fade). So the police (corp sec, wiz gang -- whoever) can potentially follow to wherever it is you go after a run, then send disgusting amount of forces to ruin your day. Sure, when it comes to police, in court it would come down to the word of a highly respected professional forensic mage against that of a rogue, SIN-less, criminal mage, and I'm sure the judge (or possible jury) would completely keep an open mind about the chance that the professional was wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(This is why you want to get behind a good mana barrier, pronto, if you don't have the opportunity to erase your spell signatures. Threshold for tracing goes up by the mana barrier rating). Nice to have a second residence with a good lodge, or have a room arranged in the sort of very exclusive hotel that offers strong wards around its rooms.

Actually, I was more concerned with longer-term forensics. You might be able to hide out until, as you've suggested, the signatures fade away. But, if they can record the signature for later reference (and it appears they can), then they can also conclusively tie you to previous crimes as well, if you're caught at a later date.

I tend to get around this via GM bribery - I never start the game as a mage without already being an Initiate with both Flexible Signature and Masking. Honestly, the career of any Shadowrunner mage who doesn't have both of these metamagics to start with would be over before it began.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DrZaius
post May 10 2016, 12:52 AM
Post #7


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,856
Joined: 25-July 07
Member No.: 12,360



Prior to fingerprints and cameras and all the tech in the world, there was still law enforcement. Mage "eye-witnesses" could be called to court to point out criminals, "Yes your honor- that signature matches the signature of the criminal in question".

The more I think about law enforcement in Shadowrun, the less likely it is that ANY crimes would be possible. How to balance the ubiquitous, cheap recording and constant spirits patrolling? Greed, of course!

Corporations don't like to share information. They hate each other, and want to gain any advantage. They COULD share law enforcement resources; they choose not to. LS (Or KE or anyone who is running a city's law enforcement) has a contract with the city; and some corporations. They're under no obligation to share criminal records with the various corps. In fact, they get paid for enforcing crime - it's in their best interest that more criminals stay on the street! So they can choose to silo information from various corporate contracts so that the left hand doesn't help the right. There's a minimal level of safety, sure, so if you've gone on a huge cop killing spree they'll likely lift more than a finger. But to quote the Fifth Element, "if they don't chase you after a mile, they don't chase you." All of this would go the same for corporate mages. Why would they share the astral signatures of criminals on file with other corps, or law enforcement? Getting robbed is embarrassing; they don't want anyone to know a mage got the best of them.

-DrZ
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mantis
post May 10 2016, 03:30 AM
Post #8


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,102
Joined: 23-August 09
From: Vancouver, Canada
Member No.: 17,538



Not to mention this sort of thing provides some nice leverage for the corp in question to get said mage to do some work for them and not try to screw them over, or at least not so long as the corp has the signature on file.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post May 10 2016, 05:19 AM
Post #9


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



QUOTE (JanessaVR @ May 9 2016, 04:41 PM) *
Ok, I've gone and checked out this entry in Arsenal. If I'm reading it right, the resulting photo can be digitized. I think that does it - the cops can create a searchable database of magical signatures (if they can get a Quicksilver MSF Camera to the scene of the crime before the astral signatures fade).


I suspect it ends up being something like thermal vision. Which while completely inaccurate to how said perception feels to the entities that have it, makes sense to the rest of us.

The Anonymous Rex novels also liked to describe the dinosaur characters' sense of smell and each others' scents (which they could immediately scent and identify when they got within about 50 meters of each other) as things like "crabs baking on a hot beach" and such, which evokes a strong mental image for us normals, even though it's totally disconnected from what's actually going on.

Mage: "Yeah, that's exactly what it looks like, only think of these orange streaks as being the smell of blueberry pie and those polkadots as being your best friend sleeping with your wife."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sk8bcn
post May 11 2016, 08:29 AM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 702
Joined: 21-August 08
From: France
Member No.: 16,265



I don't see why a cop saying to a court "I saw him shoot at the victim" would be less receivable than "I identified his astral imprint". It's like an expert beeing invited to testify that the accused one has a mental disorder.

By the way, we could even imagine that a COP-mage could be invited to assense an astral imprint then identify the suspect just like an eye witness would do.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
binarywraith
post May 11 2016, 10:00 PM
Post #11


Shooting Target
****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 1,973
Joined: 4-June 10
Member No.: 18,659



It was a huge deal in 3e, because you could astral quest for a ritual link on someone if you knew their signature, and ritual links ruin a mage's day.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JanessaVR
post May 11 2016, 10:56 PM
Post #12


Awakened Master Ninja
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 873
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Sacramento, CA
Member No.: 10,844



QUOTE (sk8bcn @ May 11 2016, 01:29 AM) *
I don't see why a cop saying to a court "I saw him shoot at the victim" would be less receivable than "I identified his astral imprint". It's like an expert being invited to testify that the accused one has a mental disorder.

By the way, we could even imagine that a COP-mage could be invited to assense an astral imprint then identify the suspect just like an eye witness would do.

Yes, but that's a lot less likely to hold up in court than more objective proof. If all a cop can do is go in front of a jury and say "Yeah, that's the guy. How do I know? From his astral signature; it matches what I saw at the scene of the crime. Can I show that to you? Uh, no. Look, it's a magic thing, you'll just have to take my word for it."

On the other hand, if the cop can demonstrate original alchemical photos of the astral signature found at the crime scene, and photos of the defendant's astral signature (and show a match), then I can only imagine that would count as much better evidence in a court of law. The police wouldn't bother to have a CSI division if all they had to do was show up in court with no evidence and say "Yeah, that's the guy. Just take my word for it."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sk8bcn
post May 12 2016, 09:19 AM
Post #13


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 702
Joined: 21-August 08
From: France
Member No.: 16,265



Yes I guess it holds less than an actual proof. I see it a testimony, not more. Like if a cop would say to the court that he saw someone run away and identify him as the subject.

It's a piece of the dossier but not enough to a "guilty" verdict.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bodak
post May 28 2016, 07:12 AM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 563
Joined: 23-July 03
From: outside America
Member No.: 5,015



QUOTE (JanessaVR @ May 10 2016, 06:25 AM) *
call all the other Awakened cops he knows and ask if they remember the magical signature heís found? And thatís assuming that he can even describe it well enough. (...) If it canít be objectively recorded and digitized, and thus used for later comparison, then what practical use is it?

QUOTE (JanessaVR @ May 12 2016, 09:56 AM) *
"Yeah, that's the guy. How do I know? From his astral signature; it matches what I saw at the scene of the crime. Can I show that to you? Uh, no. Look, it's a magic thing, you'll just have to take my word for it."
Astral forensics would likely be Mystic Adepts with "Three-Dimensional Memory" (Street Magic p180), "Eidetic Sense Memory" (Street Magic p176) and MindLink (SR4a p207). They can perfectly capture and indefinitely retain the crime scene, the whole sensation of the astral signature, and relay it faithfully to others in the courtroom. Or to other astral forensic mystic adepts who can Eidetic Sense Memorise it themselves. MindNet (Street Magic p168) so everybody present knows everyone has the same data.

QUOTE (Street Magic)
Eidetic Sense Memory
An adept with this power has the ability to memorize all types of sensory input. (...) The adept can recall these sensory impressions at will
QUOTE (SR4a)
MindLink
Mindlink allows the caster and one voluntary subject to communicate mentally, exchanging conversation, emotions, and mental images.

Of course, every Astral Forensic expert can be bribed and blackmailed to the same extent a judge can; everybody has their price. But my point is that scanning megapulses into Optical Memory Chips is not the only reliable record.

So the conversation might proceed more along the lines of:
QUOTE (Hypothetical courtroom)
Adept: He knew kung fu.
Judge: Show me.
(Replace kung fu with whatever mojo went down in that alleyway on the fateful night in question.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JanessaVR
post May 28 2016, 07:23 AM
Post #15


Awakened Master Ninja
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 873
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Sacramento, CA
Member No.: 10,844



@Bodak:

Um, I think you missed all the rest of posts here. We already established that they can be both photographed and digitized, so there's no problem with presenting them as objective evidence in court.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bodak
post May 28 2016, 08:57 AM
Post #16


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 563
Joined: 23-July 03
From: outside America
Member No.: 5,015



JanessaVR@

I read them all.
QUOTE (Bodak @ May 28 2016, 06:12 PM) *
But my point is that scanning megapulses into Optical Memory Chips is not the only reliable record.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Thanee
post May 28 2016, 09:00 AM
Post #17


jacked in
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 8,521
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 463



QUOTE (JanessaVR @ May 9 2016, 09:25 PM) *
Iím curious if anyone else has come across an answer for this anywhere in the rulebooks, as I havenít. Itís noted that magical criminals had better be good at either leaving no astral signatures behind or erasing them before leaving the scene of the crime, but I donít see how it matters all that much, legally speaking.


Basically, you need the original person that assensed the signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Considering, that mages are not exactly common, it is not super unlikely, though, that the same LoneStar (or whatever security there is) mage will come across the same signature.

Also, when there is a crime scene with heavy use of magic, it is entirely possible that every available mage is called there for assensing purposes, to have the information more widely available.

But yeah, you cannot really do much else with those.

Bye
Thanee
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bodak
post May 28 2016, 09:49 AM
Post #18


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 563
Joined: 23-July 03
From: outside America
Member No.: 5,015



QUOTE (Thanee @ May 28 2016, 08:00 PM) *
Basically, you need the original person that assensed the signature. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Don't you think a MysAdept who has had the perfect memory delivered to them would be able to remember and assense it themselves? And pass it on to others?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sendaz
post May 28 2016, 11:16 AM
Post #19


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,038
Joined: 23-March 05
From: The heart of Rywfol Emwolb Industries
Member No.: 7,216



oooooh.... Magical Chinese Whispers

But yeah, if the MysAds have learnt the proper techniques like those Bodak pointed out above they should be able to receive and retain a signature I would imagine.

But for court cases, I imagine they would have to call in the original mage as he was the actual 'first witness' to the crime scene.

But for searching for the perp or narrowing down the list of suspects? Totally can see using shared images to help run them to ground.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mantis
post May 28 2016, 05:41 PM
Post #20


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,102
Joined: 23-August 09
From: Vancouver, Canada
Member No.: 17,538



Which is why, like I said in the beginning, they would use Quicksilver Mana Sensitive Film Cameras (Arsenal, pg 67). No need for adepts with super specific power sets or having magicians pass it along one to the other. Snap, snap, upload and done.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JanessaVR
post May 28 2016, 10:03 PM
Post #21


Awakened Master Ninja
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 873
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Sacramento, CA
Member No.: 10,844



QUOTE (Mantis @ May 28 2016, 10:41 AM) *
Which is why, like I said in the beginning, they would use Quicksilver Mana Sensitive Film Cameras (Arsenal, pg 67). No need for adepts with super specific power sets or having magicians pass it along one to the other. Snap, snap, upload and done.

Exactly. This is a simple, direct method of storing evidence in an objective manor that can both be stored and indexed for later easy retrieval, and presented in court in a straightforward fashion, without actually insisting that members of the jury subject themselves to a (probably unwanted) telepathic mind link, just to be able to review evidence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ShadowDragon8685
post May 29 2016, 06:39 AM
Post #22


Horror
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,322
Joined: 15-June 05
From: BumFuck, New Jersey
Member No.: 7,445



As with all games set after the formalization of (reliable) forensic science, the players' ability to get away with shit is not usually based on their ability to not leave evidence (if they could reliably plan detailed heists that ended in success with no evidence, they'd either be working for or against actual law enforcement,) it's in whether they've set the bar high enough that it's just not worth pursuing them.

In Shadowrun, the default for that bar is very, very high, since all they have to do is make their escape through (someone else's) extraterritorial jurisdiction and the folks chasing them can't chase them any further without risking a shooting war. Generally speaking, forensically tracking down the heist crew that pulled off a successful Shadowrun is in no way profitable for any of the parties who might potentially be interested in so doing, as they stand a next-to-nil chance of recovering any value (either from seizure of the Runners' assets, or recovery of whatever was taken,) and it will involve a very expensive investigation, including exceedingly expensive negotiations with other jurisdictions to get ahold of any evidence they may have.

Which is possible, I will point out. Saeder-Krupp and Ares may be very much at odds with one another, but they are fundamentally businesses. If S-K has evidence Ares wants badly enough, Ares will meet their asking price, and S-K will sell it to them. This is also how you can find things like Knight Errant Firewatch teams contracted to run security for an AZT research lab, as in Dragonfall. The companies may not like one another at all, but business is business, and if it's cheaper to hire one of their hated competitors as a contractor than to do it themselves, there's a very good chance they will do exactly that.

So, if someone wants you badly enough, they will find you. Astral cameras are probably on standby with rapid response forensic investigation teams that can be hired in like, five minutes' time to be rapidly flown out to your crime scene and snap pictures of the astral signatures the spellslingers were throwing around. Such services are not cheap, though, so the question is, "is it worth it." The answer is usually "no," just like the answer to the question of "is it worth paying 100,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to Saeder-Krupp to get their security footage and whatever their security guys found that those jackasses who robbed us may have dropped on their way across the S-K compound" is usually "no."

Of course, things you do can change these variables. If you perform a silent in-and-out with evidence that the company's team can clean up before the morning coffee crowd arrives, they'll probably decide to just save face and money and tell the workers nothing, and if any prototypes or something were stolen, blame it on a janitorial contractor and sweep everything under the rug. If you slaughtered your way across a compound and chose to install new doorways in every wall with detcord rather than use the normal doors, there's a much higher chance they will, if not actively come looking for you, keep an ear out and if you get sloppy, they'll jump if they get a chance. If you kidnapped the CEO's daughter and held her for ransom, they're coming for you and money is not even on their list of concerns.

If you want to enjoy a long, prosperous career as a Shadowrunner, then, one without kill teams breaking into your safehouse while you're settling down to masturbate to some trid-porn, follow these rules:

1: Try to leave as little evidence as possible, duh. The more low-hanging fruit they have to work with, the lower the bar to coming after you. If you fuck-up royal and leave directions to your safehouse in their facillity, they're going to show up on general principles.
2: Avoid killing if at all possible. Even corps you generally consider soulless get angry if you slaughter their people, if for no other reason than they don't like paying death benefits. Also, you never know which of those inept security guards is going to be the nepotistically-employed nephew of some VIP who loves his fuck-up nephew and will consider it personal that you geeked his sister's boy, or which cubicle drone might be the wageslave cousin of some Runner who's going to come after you looking for revenge.
2a: Obviously, if they're slinging lead at you, you gotta do what you gotta do, and most people consider armed security to be fair game. Cubicle drones, not so much.
3: Theft is okay, even opportunistic theft, but if you clean the place out, somebody is going to have to answer for it. Assuming that person still has a job (or at least a pulse,) when the incident review is over, you've given them a personal reason to come after you. They may or may not be capable of executing on this depending on how much reason you've given the company to back them on this and/or how many personal resources they have to bring to bear, but generally speaking, the less you steal, the more it's written off as "just business," the less the personal butthurt and vendettas.
3a ooc: This is also on the GM. If your Johnsons are giving the players so little money for Shadowruning that they could literally make better bank by walking out of the meet, stealing the Johnson's ride or a vehicle just like it, and selling it to a chop shop, you're incentivizing your players to steal everything that isn't nailed down, and to bring crowbars, claw hammers and angle grinders so that they may adjust the definition of "nailed down." This is also a major cause of players who take Tamanous contacts and make a habit of "recycling" corpses. If you want your players to put more effort into doing the job and less into stealing everything they can pry up, actually pay them money worth a professional criminal's time.l
4: Don't make things personal. Not just avoiding killing if at all possible, but don't taunt the corpsec, or leave calling cards like a moron, or cause massively unnecessary damage, and for the love of Zog, if you aren't being paid to sabotage the place, don't sabotage the place! The less damage you cause, the less incentive they have for coming after you.
4a: It's not just the company security you want to avoid making things personal with: if at all possible, try to refrain from screwing over individuals, including looting their desks and the like. Those poor fuckers work for a living, maybe not the same way you do, but if you steal some wageslave's credstick hoard that has the money he was saving to buy his kid a sweet sixteen gently used car, he's gonna be vengeful, and you never know when the stupidest things will come back to haunt you. You'd be pissed if some burglar hit your doss while you were out and stole your shit, and you'd go after them; don't make the mistake of assuming random joes can't or won't go after you.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hermit
post May 29 2016, 10:32 AM
Post #23


The King In Yellow
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,922
Joined: 26-February 05
From: JWD
Member No.: 7,121



QUOTE
I’m curious if anyone else has come across an answer for this anywhere in the rulebooks, as I haven’t. It’s noted that magical criminals had better be good at either leaving no astral signatures behind or erasing them before leaving the scene of the crime, but I don’t see how it matters all that much, legally speaking.

That entirely depends on the juristiction in question. What may not be permissible in the UCAS may well be before a Sioux, Pueblo or Aztechnology court.

QUOTE
This is because, in Shadowrun, magic doesn’t play well with technology…so how exactly is anyone storing a record of the astral signatures of a magical criminal? Sure, an Awakened cop can astrally assense the scene and view the signature, but what’s he going to do with it then? It’s not a fingerprint. It can’t be lifted from the scene, scanned into a computer and checked against a database.

Well, there is mana-sensitive quicksilver film - basically a (crappy) photograph of the Astral. Not that great, sure, but neither were the first gene-tests, nor were blood types anywhere near proof a given person left a blood trace, and yet they were permissible in court. And in US courts, even a technology like polygraphy, that has been proven entirely unable to produce reliable results, is still considered valid evidence. The bar isn't set all that high.

QUOTE
If the same criminal commits a crime someone else, what’s the local Awakened cop going to do – call all the other Awakened cops he knows and ask if they remember the magical signature he’s found? And that’s assuming that he can even describe it well enough.

Well, in case of Paranormal Investigators, the mage could just send a watcher or small spirit to the other cop and deliver the signature by spirit telepathy. Since no description is needed, that should work. Also, he could just mail dauggerography copies.

QUOTE
If all a cop can do is go in front of a jury and say "Yeah, that's the guy. How do I know? From his astral signature; it matches what I saw at the scene of the crime. Can I show that to you? Uh, no. Look, it's a magic thing, you'll just have to take my word for it."

That would count the same as any expert or witness testimony. There is, to the average juror, little difference between science and magic, after all. And the mage cop carries the same weight as a regular (ork) cop in face of the jury (which is likely all-white and all-mundane-human).

Of course, as I said, this would depend on the juristiction. Some courts may accept magic CSI accounts at face value, or even the account of any magical practitioner (like a tribal shaman, or a wage mage). Others may set the bar higher, dismiss the photographs for lack of clarity and fuzziness, or just dismiss magic as a tool of the courts altogether, because they're conservative (like Switzerland) or for religious reasons (like Arabia, Westphalia, or the CAS). Satan's work can't possibly be worthy testimony, can it?

QUOTE
without actually insisting that members of the jury subject themselves to a (probably unwanted) telepathic mind link, just to be able to review evidence.

Please keep in mind that in juristictions that aren't the UCAS, CAS, or California, juries aren't usually used. And a Sioux court shaman might well accept that, being Awakened themselves.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glyph
post May 29 2016, 07:47 PM
Post #24


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449



One additional thing to keep in mind for shadowrunners is that if a corporation successfully catches them, they are likelier to disappear (or, if they are savvy and professional enough, cut a deal), rather than see the inside of a courtroom.

For runners who do see the inside of a courtroom, astral evidence alone probably won't be enough to convict them, assuming they have an alibi and/or a decent lawyer. Remember, it is possible to forge someone else's astral signature.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hermit
post May 29 2016, 09:05 PM
Post #25


The King In Yellow
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,922
Joined: 26-February 05
From: JWD
Member No.: 7,121



QUOTE
One additional thing to keep in mind for shadowrunners is that if a corporation successfully catches them, they are likelier to disappear (or, if they are savvy and professional enough, cut a deal), rather than see the inside of a courtroom.

It's not like cutting a deal is unheared of in many state judiciaries either. Or, for that matter, disappearing into a black site forever without any kind of fair trial.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th May 2023 - 03:15 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.