Howling Shadows Options

[Prime Mover]

In the wild overnight. Pun intended.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/183920...src=slider_view

Very happy with ToC, Drakes, Techno critters, Astral Denizens, Cyber Critters and tons more.

[Sengir]

The artwork previews certainly looked good

[Tecumseh]

Nice. Anyone have a DriveThruRPG affiliate code they want me to use?

[Sengir]

Nice. Anyone have a DriveThruRPG affiliate code they want me to use?

I took the liberty of turning your question into a suggestion

[LurkerOutThere]

Just hope you don't want prices and availability for them there critters.

[Sengir]

Just hope you don't want prices and availability for them there critters.

Personally never used those, but quite a few people apparently did. And of course the "reasoning" for the removal is just classic JMH.

You know what has listed prices and Availability? Cybertooth tigers and junkyard dogs ("this biodrone is specialized for area
denial and manhunting"). But not hellhounds, because "Corps capture and breed their own. And are not anxious to sell them so that more people can have hellhounds".


On the plus side, it still makes a good monster manual, especially the various astral creepiness looks like fun for the aspiring sadist GM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hermit]

That's just your typical, not thought out at all, last minute JMH ghost change that sours an otherwise decent product because he has something to push that he thinks is a good idea. Especially if cyber critters have prices and availabilities. Cybertooth tigers with lasers on their heads? No problem! But don't you DARE want a kitty or a puppy. That's just too unbalanced for JMH. Can't have that. Getting kitties has to be, like, super hard.

[Fabe]

That's just your typical, not thought out at all, last minute JMH ghost change that sours an otherwise decent product because he has something to push that he thinks is a good idea. Especially if cyber critters have prices and availabilities. Cybertooth tigers with lasers on their heads? No problem! But don't you DARE want a kitty or a puppy. That's just too unbalanced for JMH. Can't have that. Getting kitties has to be, like, super hard.

yeah how hard could it be to come up with prices and stats for every breed of dog and cat out there? its not like you can get pets from different places for different prices.

[hermit]

There's one in every crowd. Yeah, sure, I could fix that with house rules and such. The question isn't whether that's possible, the question is why I should have to after paying $25 for a rules book.

[Sengir]

its not like you can get pets guns from different places for different prices.

So obviously, books full of guns are out, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

OK, seriously: When it comes to cetacea, juggernauts, astral critters and so forth, I'm fully with Mr. Hardy -- acquiring a blue whale should be a bit more involved than picking the model of your choice out of a list and making a dice roll. But that does not extend to all critters. Common pets and security critters should indeed be available from a catalog.


I guess what really pisses me off about that Twitter exchange is that I've been criticizing the limitations of the price/availability system and the idea of separate entries for left and right socks for some time now. But now the guy who is responsible for that system has stumbled upon the fact that the price/avail system models various things rather poorly and that some costs could just be eyeballed or rolled into lifestyle, and his reaction is to cop out and just not give stats...

[Sascha Morlok]

BTW nice to know you need a special authorization by S-K to study Fenrir wolfs in Germany. Last time I checked the AGS wasn't a subsidiary of Saeder-Krupp, but I might be wrong.

[Sengir]

BTW nice to know you need a special authorization by S-K to study Fenrir wolfs in Germany. Last time I checked the AGS wasn't a subsidiary of Saeder-Krupp, but I might be wrong.

Google "Stingray NDA"...

[hermit]

Google "Stingray NDA"...

Which is relevant how, exactly? Aside from the fact that in the fields of IP rights and corporate legislation (as well as countless others), the US and Germany (which is a Nordic/Benelux hybrid legally) don't have much in common, how do a protected IP (software) and a natural ressource (an animal) compare in the slightest? It's not like Fenris wolves were conceived by SK. They're wild animals, much like regular wolves.

[Sascha Morlok]

Market Panic, p. 159

Later that year Germany got a new chancellor, and
to everyone’s surprise the old corporate-friendly administration
wasn’t reelected. To Saeder-Krupp’s (and especially
Lofwyr’s) displeasure, the conservative candidate
Anikka Beloit won, the last remaining heir to the Beloit
legacy. Her slogan is “Meeting corporations on eye level,”
and as you would expect from someone with that
view, she cut off the privileged access S-K had to the
government in the past.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[hermit]

Well. That may just not have filtered down to the authors of Howling Shadows.

[Mantis]

Why are mundane animal speeds so off? An elephant sure doesn't run at 72 meters/3 seconds (86 km/hour) in real life. I assume a typo there but the bear is too slow as is the giraffe. A quick google search shows most of these animal speeds are off. Same was true of Running Wild for 4th ed. It isn't that difficult to get these speeds so why just make up numbers?
I'd give it a pass for paracritters since, you know, magic but they actually seem pretty reasonable for the most part.

[Sengir]

Which is relevant how, exactly?

It shows how even in the real world, where conventional governments have something to say, these governments nevertheless allow a company to make decisions which would normally be up to the state -- and follow through with it to the point of dropping persecutions when the alternative would be against that agreement.

Compared to that, granting a company the last word on who can study and keep a certain species seems like petty stuff, especially considering that the power balance between S-K and the AGS is a bit different than between Harris and the US.

[Sascha Morlok]

Compared to that, granting a company the last word on who can study and keep a certain species seems like petty stuff, especially considering that the power balance between S-K and the AGS is a bit different than between Harris and the US.

You haven't read my quote, haven't you? And even before that, the AGS wasn't an S-K subsidiary.

[hermit]

Besides, that's like granting a company the right to say who gets to collect wild mushrooms, or fish cod. That is WAY above the use of proprietary software in terms of invasiveness and reach. That's nowhere near petty.

[Sengir]

You haven't read my quote, haven't you?

I indeed must have missed the quote stating that somebody shot down the Z-O and threw the Passau treaties into the wreckage. All I can see is a quote saying that S-K no longer enjoys "privileged access", which as long as the world is still ruled by the Big 10 only means that Big L no longer enjoys preferential treatment over the other 9.

Besides, that's like granting a company the right to say who gets to collect wild mushrooms, or fish cod.

Collecting mushrooms can be subject to government restrictions, fishing and hunting nearly universally is. Even collecting discarded feathers can be heavily restricted. The Swiss still have a salt monopoly, in many countries fermenting or distilling alcohol is only allowed for state-designated businesses, and so on and so forth...
And the trouble with the Stingray NDAs is not about the "use of proprietary software". It's about the government signing a gag clause relating to basically everything about that software, and bending over backwards to serve it, even at the price of dropping persecutions or telling local law enforcement to engage in parallel construction.

So, governments in the restrict or monopolize access to natural resources for various reasons, and governments let corporations have a significant say in sovereign duties. But in a future where megacorps are more powerful than national governments, the very same thing suddenly becomes unrealistic? Yeah, sure...

[MrGlee]

I imagine the wolf thing is similar to an American concept. Some companies have patent on certain modified seeds, and no matter how they get on a farmer's land(say, wind blowing them off of an exposed truck bed), if they haven't licensed them out to you, will sue the shit out of you. This seems like a similar concept, we own the legal rights to this strain of wolf in Germany, so if you mess with it we take legal action.

[Sendaz]

So the question is is SK trying to enforce protective status to the Fenrir Wolves because Goldsnout has warm, fuzzy feelings for the animals that frolic in his region or are they just trying to protect their local genepool since the wolves respresent an asset to be harvested and trained for security work?

[Sascha Morlok]

In Running Wild (which also says that the Wolfs also live in Scandinavia and Eastern Europa) S-K owns a critter farm for them (besides the wild wilds living without interference by S-K). And I guess this is what the author is referring to. What a pity it doesn't read that way.

Last time I checked BRA and the Passau Treaty just grant Corporations extraterritoriality (in exchange for taxes), not fully sovereignty over a country.

[Sengir]

Last time I checked BRA and the Passau Treaty just grant Corporations extraterritoriality (in exchange for taxes), not fully sovereignty over a country.

Let me guess, you also believe that Honduras or Guatemala used to be sovereign nations because there was no treaty explicitly stating that their governments were just lackeys or corporations?


The Big 10 are the superpowers of the 6th world, rivaled only by each other in terms of economic power, military force projection, and cultural soft power. Nation states are nothing but the leftovers after everybody who could staked out their own extraterritorial claim. So if S-K wants to have a monopoly on holding the few remaining fenrirs in Germany, chances are they'll get their way.

------

And now for something different:

Amazonian laws are formulated with the core principle of equal rights towards pretty much all life forms. Whereas any sane city will thank you for killing devil rats, feral dogs and all other creatures that can pose a threat to human life, Amazonia doesn’t see things that way. Any living creature has as much right to exist as any other. In Amazonia, neighborhood ponds may be home to, say, alligator. And nobody is going to ask them to move. “Pest control” is called “murder” over there.

So Hualpa and all the dragons, shifters, and naga in Amazonia are vegetarians? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[JanessaVR]

And now for something different:

"Amazonian laws are formulated with the core principle of equal rights towards pretty much all life forms. Whereas any sane city will thank you for killing devil rats, feral dogs and all other creatures that can pose a threat to human life, Amazonia doesn’t see things that way. Any living creature has as much right to exist as any other. In Amazonia, neighborhood ponds may be home to, say, alligator. And nobody is going to ask them to move. “Pest control” is called “murder” over there."

So Hualpa and all the dragons, shifters, and naga in Amazonia are vegetarians? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As true an example of Political Correctness Gone Mad as I've ever seen.

Admittedly, my idea of pest control in the Sixth World includes not only the spell Slaughter Devil Rats, but Slaughter Ghouls as well.

Gotta keep the vermin population down.