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[Sendaz]

Don't forget the Muggle Muzzles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[JanessaVR]

Don't forget the Muggle Muzzles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Only if they get uppity.

Someone has to fetch me tea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Sengir]

As true an example of Political Correctness Gone Mad as I've ever seen.

More a case of somebody trying to create such an example but not really thinking through how it fits in the story...

[Sascha Morlok]

Let me guess, you also believe that Honduras or Guatemala used to be sovereign nations because there was no treaty explicitly stating that their governments were just lackeys or corporations?

The Big 10 are the superpowers of the 6th world, rivaled only by each other in terms of economic power, military force projection, and cultural soft power. Nation states are nothing but the leftovers after everybody who could staked out their own extraterritorial claim. So if S-K wants to have a monopoly on holding the few remaining fenrirs in Germany, chances are they'll get their way.

No, I don`t think they are sovereign Nations, as they where annexed by Aztlan. And Europe isn`t North America. Governments are generally stronger here (even in SR). Nonetheless I know the Big 10 are the major powers in the world. But they aren`t the only powers in the world. And again, the author refers to a S-K critter farm, not the general "patent" on every Fenrir Wolf on this planet. He just missed to write it that way.

But hey, I can`t tell you how to play the game. If you want S-K to onw a patent on them, you are free to do so. But may keep in mind, it`S not supposed to be that way.

[Sengir]

No, I don`t think they are sovereign Nations, as they where annexed by Aztlan.

Which together with the past tense might have given you pause -- maybe I wasn't talking Shadowrun?

Hint: Look up the etymology of the term "banana republic". It's a bit of history one should be aware of, even when not trying to write cyberpunk stories

But hey, I can`t tell you how to play the game. If you want S-K to onw a patent on them, you are free to do so. But may keep in mind, it`S not supposed to be that way.

Remind me, who was arguing against what's written in the book, again?



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And I love those "runner spirits", even though the "Metaplane of Cyberpunk" (not the actual name) is kinda weird.

[hermit]

you also believe that Honduras or Guatemala used to be sovereign nations because there was no treaty explicitly stating that their governments were just lackeys or corporations?

Maybe you should read that yourself. These states weren't subsidiaries to Dole or United Fruit, but shackled by debt held by the US government and subject to CIA interventions in the McCarthy era because terrorists communists, not corporate mercenaries. For those, I'd recommend a look at the war against Boko Haram and the Biafra war. Also, anything in Africa Cogema/Areva were involved in might be what you're looking for.

Kudos to the Blackjack reference, Howling Wild writers, btw.

[Sengir]

Maybe you should read that yourself. These states weren't subsidiaries to Dole or United Fruit

Uh yes, that's the entire point: Sascha insists that the Big 10 cannot control governments unless those countries have not been formally designated as "subsidiaries" (which is more a financial term anyway) of the corp(s). I point out cases where countries were at the whim of powerful corporations, without there being a formal treaty stating that the branches of government are United Fruit, United Fruit, and United Fruit.

[Sascha Morlok]

I used the term "subsidiary" towards a country (Germany) sarcastically, to exaggerate the statement, that some people think S-K "rules" Europe and especially Germany. That isn't nor wasn't the case. Nonetheless the idea always comes up every once in a while. Yes, S-K has influence over several governments, but more because of their economic impotence and monopoly of certain key infrastructures (Energy, Water, Matrix, etc.).

I just find it hard to belive that S-K put so much effort into such a small thing like making all this lawey work for Germany (and obviously for ScanU and "Eastern Europe"), to "patent" something they haven't created, that was just "there" and fighting of every other corp, magical group, guy with money, to claim the same, because nobody would have a good point in claiming something for them self, that was made by nature... so everybody would have the same good points "It's mine because I say so"... well, na... not my type of logic.

[lokii]

because of their economic impotence

Sascha, Sascha. First argueing against S-Ks awesome power over all German Fenrir wolves and now this Freudian slip. In secret you hate Saeder-Krupp, don't you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Sascha Morlok]

Sascha, Sascha. First argueing against S-Ks awesome power over all German Fenrir wolves and now this Freudian slip. In secret you hate Saeder-Krupp, don't you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm arguing against "I'm putting much effort in this tiny unimportant thing, so it belongs to me, because... I said so", I'm not arguing against an S-K "advise" to governments certain "guidelines" as the Grey Eminence in the Game. Nonetheless corps have to follow national and international law. And patenting someone you haven't created is definitely something no government would allow.

And no, I love S-K, especially because you probably have the best working and living conditions as an employee (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Sengir]

I used the term "subsidiary" towards a country (Germany) sarcastically, to exaggerate the statement, that some people think S-K "rules" Europe and especially Germany.

Yes, because "the cyberpunk RPG" tends to follow certain genre conventions, like megacorporations becoming states and giving Fukuyama the finger.

I just find it hard to belive that S-K put so much effort into such a small thing like making all this lawey work for Germany (and obviously for ScanU and "Eastern Europe")

Where exactly does it say that S-K has the thumb on fenrirs everywhere? Just as a reminder, here is the quote which got you so worked up, emphasis added: "I had to get a special authorization from S-K to do my research on the fenrirs of Germany"

As for "all this lawey work", fenrir wolves are already a protected species, what is so difficult about asking for an exemption (in the name of science or to continue their successful breeding programme) for your company?

to "patent" something they haven't created, that was just "there" and fighting of every other corp, magical group, guy with money, to claim the same, because nobody would have a good point in claiming something for them self, that was made by nature... so everybody would have the same good points "It's mine because I say so"... well, na... not my type of logic.

Oh no, the evil corporations want to monopolize access to natural resources instead of giving everybody fair and equal access to everything, and a warm meal twice a day while they're at it.

Are you sure you are not confusing Shadowrun with another universe?

[Sascha Morlok]

Funfact: Patents are world wide. So if S-K would monopolize Fenrir wolfs, they would do that automatically in on other places too (and I can literally think of ScanU saying "Yeah, how about no."). And this brings me back to the point that the quote in question is actually referring to the critter farm S-K actually owns (Running Wild, p. 143), but fails to mention that Fenrirs also live in other places and outside said critter farm(s) and further more implies that S-K owns sem all (even these outside the farm(s)).

Interestingly to not is, that Running Wild mention in the same sentence that the German government put Fenrirs under a natural protection program, completely independent of S-Ks programs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sengir]

Funfact: Patents are world wide.

Fun fact: You're wrong. Not that it matters, because where exactly was I talking about patents?

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Dzoo-noo-quas have a new skill, which seems to be used for astrally perceiving cute animals: Aaawnsing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And in the expanded description of Energy Drain:
In addition to the lost point, victims suffer 1 box of damage for each point loss. For the critters in this book, that damage is Stun and may be healed normally. Victims drained of age, though, show the effects of aging, which cannot be reversed.
The last sentence seems redundant, or is this supposed to imply that the aging is represented by non-healing Stun?