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> Assembling a New Shadowrun/Earthdawn Crossover FAQ, Collecting Questions for a New FAQ
JanessaVR
post Jun 27 2016, 09:19 PM
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Hello. This is the thread lokii and I will use to work on assembling a new SR/ED FAQ. Contributions are welcome.

UPDATE on Tue, 07/05/2016:

I've compiled everything from this thread so far as follows:


The Basics

What is Earthdawn?
What is the Cycle of Magic?
So what’s the history of Earthdawn, in a nutshell?
What’s the connection between the Shadowrun and Earthdawn campaign settings?
Is the crossover still relevant, and why is it controversial?


Earthdawn Setting and Concepts

What is the province of Barsaive?
What is the Theran Empire?
What is the Kingdom of Throal?
What are the Elven Nations?
What are the Horrors?
What are the Invae?
What are Dragonkin?
What are Kaers?


Specifics

What canon Shadowrun products contain references to Earthdawn?
Which characters from Earthdawn lived long enough to make it into the Shadowrun setting?
Are there in organizations in the Sixth World that have ties back to the Fourth World?
Are there any major magical artifacts or cultural remnants from Earthdawn that survived to be discovered in Shadowrun?
Are the Horrors still a threat in Shadowrun? Are any of them active in the Sixth World?
Are the Shedim and Insect Spirits actually Horrors? What about Wraiths?
What are the dates for the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Worlds on the Mayan Calendar?
What about the First, Second, and Third Worlds?
How does the history of Earthdawn line up with real world history?
How does magic differ from the Fourth World to the Sixth World?
Why did the mana level stabilize in Earthdawn?
What is a locus and where does it come from?
What are the Rites of Protection and Passage?
What is the Blood Wood? And what was the Ritual of Thorns?
What is the fate of the White Tree?
What is the compact between dragons and elves?
What happened with the drakes?
Are there any other RPGs besides Earthdawn that are connected to Shadowrun? [Equinox, Eclipse Phase]
Haven't there been other efforts to compile Earthdawn-to-Shadowrun crossover info before this?
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Bodak
post Jun 28 2016, 08:39 AM
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This cache would have been awesome to preserve digitally.

While you're compiling 4th and 6th world links, might as well include 8th world if you're up for it while you're at it (what's available anyway):
QUOTE ("RedBrick")
Equinox is a future fantasy game of stunning action, frightening intrigue, and mystical powers, set in the dark future of the war-ravaged Eighth World. This page intends to sweeten the wait and give you a glimpse of what the game will hold for you!
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lokii
post Jun 28 2016, 09:49 AM
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Okay I will start:

_basics_
what is earthdawn?
what is the cycle of magic?
what is the connection between shadowrun and earthdawn aka the crossover?
is the crossover still relevant?
why is the crossover controversial?

_earthdawn concepts_
what are the horrors?
what is the theran empire?
what are the invae?

_specifics_
are the horrors a threat in the era of shadowrun?
who is still around from earthdawn?
- known (sourcebook, novel)
- potential
what is still around from earthdawn?
why did the mana level stabilize in earthdawn?
what is a locus and where does it come from?
are there horrors active in shadowrun?
are shedim horrors?
are insect spirits horrors?
are there other rpg systems connected to shadowrun beside earthdawn?
- equinox
- eclipse phase
- "Earthrise, Earthdusk, and Earthfall"
how does earthdawn fit into world history?
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JanessaVR
post Jun 28 2016, 05:05 PM
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I've started assembling my own questions. There's a delay, as keeping up with the other thread has been commanding a lot of my limited free time lately.
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Prime Mover
post Jun 28 2016, 10:54 PM
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Still lots of info backed up on Ancient Files.

http://danvolodar.ru/ancientfiles/Shadowrun_to_Earthdawn.htm
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JanessaVR
post Jun 30 2016, 06:28 AM
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@lokii:

A great start. Here's a couple more:

What canon products contain references to the ED setting?
Which characters from the Fourth Age lived long enough to see the Sixth Age?
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JanessaVR
post Jun 30 2016, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (Bodak @ Jun 28 2016, 01:39 AM) *
While you're compiling 4th and 6th world links, might as well include 8th world if you're up for it while you're at it (what's available anyway):

This page seems a bit intriguing (I believe hermit suggested it me once before), but I'm not sure how well it fits with SR/ED, as there seems to be free use of magic in space, which is supposed to be a big mana void. The destruction of Earth should have gotten rid of most magic. A rather severe solution for the Horrors problem.

EDIT: Some further research has revealed that, yes, apparently this really was supposed to be the Eighth World of the SR/ED universe, but then companies split up, licensing issues, etc. That said, apparently the setting is now (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) totally unrelated to the SR/ED universe, and any obvious similarities or references to them are...clearly just products of your overactive imagination.

So, yes, I think we can give it at least a bit of a mention in the FAQ.

I actually have thought about plans for an Eighth World campaign, but it did not involve the destruction of any planets in the Sol system. Therefore, my feelings about this setting are...mixed.
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lokii
post Jun 30 2016, 11:22 PM
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I updated my list.

Since we had a discussion about the Mayan calendar, maybe we should add a question about that:

why does the mayan calendar switch in 2011 instead of 2012 in shadowrun?
- michael coe

But I guess that would be better suited in a general Shadowrun FAQ.
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Sendaz
post Jul 1 2016, 12:25 AM
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QUOTE (lokii @ Jun 30 2016, 07:22 PM) *
why does the mayan calendar switch in 2011 instead of 2012 in shadowrun?
- michael coe

Because it's still waiting for errata since the 4th Age (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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JanessaVR
post Jul 1 2016, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jun 30 2016, 05:25 PM) *
Because it's still waiting for errata since the 4th Age (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

LOL! 5 millennia makes even Microsoft tech support look good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jul 1 2016, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jun 30 2016, 12:34 PM) *
EDIT: Some further research has revealed that, yes, apparently this really was supposed to be the Eighth World of the SR/ED universe, but then companies split up, licensing issues, etc. That said, apparently the setting is now (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) totally unrelated to the SR/ED universe, and any obvious similarities or references to them are...clearly just products of your overactive imagination.

So, yes, I think we can give it at least a bit of a mention in the FAQ.


You mean, just like the supposed connections between SR/ED Universe Now? Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge. THOSE Connections?
Any obvious similarities or references to them are...clearly just products of your overactive imagination.


See... works both ways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Sendaz
post Jul 1 2016, 02:08 PM
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For those wanting to take a peek at it, the new version of Equinox is under the Vagrant Workshop banner.

Still trying to make heads or tails of it, though it is amusing they use the FU rules (Freeform/Universal rules, not the other term ), though some could make an argument for the other definition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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JanessaVR
post Jul 2 2016, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 1 2016, 06:47 AM) *
You mean, just like the supposed connections between SR/ED Universe Now? Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge. THOSE Connections?
Any obvious similarities or references to them are...clearly just products of your overactive imagination.

See... works both ways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh, I'm not disdainful, I'm amused. From my research, I believe the "divorce" happened before it was first published. In this respect, SR/ED was luckier, as that relationship was fully official for some time before the licenses were split. I still hold out hope that someday they'll be officially reunited again.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jul 2 2016, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jul 2 2016, 01:04 AM) *
Oh, I'm not disdainful, I'm amused. From my research, I believe the "divorce" happened before it was first published. In this respect, SR/ED was luckier, as that relationship was fully official for some time before the licenses were split. I still hold out hope that someday they'll be officially reunited again.



Amused is a good tack... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Not sure they will ever be reunited, but I could be wrong.
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Bodak
post Jul 3 2016, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jun 30 2016, 07:34 PM) *
there seems to be free use of magic in space, which is supposed to be a big mana void.
But if you take an Astral Hazing character with you, they turn the void into merely a rating 4 background count. That's better than being on the moon / Mars. So it isn't as easy as casting spells on Earth, but it's doable with a couple of initiations. Or there's a portable cyberzombie:
QUOTE (toturi @ Jul 5 2011, 08:51 AM) *
I raised this particular issue back when only cyberzombies had astral hazing, before YOTC during the days of the old forums. IIRC, the idea was along the lines of using the CZ to provide a stable datum of Background Count for mages to cast in space where BC was worse than 4.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jul 5 2011, 12:28 PM) *
Ah, yes, i remember now . . the dwarf cyberzombie torso backpack without arms and legs.


QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jun 30 2016, 07:34 PM) *
apparently this really was supposed to be the Eighth World of the SR/ED universe, but then companies split up, licensing issues, etc. That said, apparently the setting is now (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) totally unrelated to the SR/ED universe, and any obvious similarities or references to them are...clearly just products of your overactive imagination.
Vagrant do flirt quite directly with the ED/SR setting in their FAQ and then throw in a few alternatives to show they are impartial:
QUOTE ("Vagrant")
I heard equinox was based on Earthdawn and Shadowrun. What's the deal about that?

equinox was indeed born out of the idea to create a third setting in the far future of the universe shared by Earthdawn and Shadowrun. The idea came to us when we were working on Earthdawn, back in the day when we were part of RedBrick Limited. Unfortunately, that never came to happen because RedBrick broke apart while equinox was still in development.

There have been a dozen other influences shaping the equinox setting to what it is, however. If you look closely, you'll find equinox could still be a possible future—even though the games don't share anything else. The same could be said about other games—FFG's Fireborn, for example, could be a modern-day version of Earthdawn.
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Sengir
post Jul 3 2016, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (lokii @ Jun 28 2016, 11:49 AM) *
are there other rpg systems connected to shadowrun beside earthdawn?
- equinox
- eclipse phase
- "Earthrise, Earthdusk, and Earthfall"
how does earthdawn fit into world history?

For EP, this link would be relevant: http://eclipsephase.com/clarification-re-equinox

"There are no links to those original ideas in the game anymore, other than sci-fi + horror -- it's just an anecdote about how the ball got rolling with us." Of course, given the treacherous nature of copyright and IP law, this might be just Posthuman covering their rear ends (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Further questions:
- What happened in the 3rd World and before?
- How does the whole story line up with actual historic events? (spoiler: Not very well. The Quaternary extinction would have been in the 3rd World, for example)
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Bodak
post Jul 4 2016, 09:01 AM
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The best summary I saw for EP's origins was:
QUOTE (Backgammon @ May 22 2009, 04:55 PM) *
One of the problems with SR4, and I think Rob Boyle realised, is that it was leaving cyberpunk for transhumanism. The best decision Rob could have done, and did, is stop doing that, and just write Eclipse Phase.
and Adam doesn't describe EP as descending from SR:
QUOTE (Adam @ Jun 21 2010, 09:25 PM) *
But my joint-and-lack-of-hierarchy-parented child, Eclipse Phase, is back on Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/epamazon
though he wasn't against future tie-ins between the settings.
Also worth adding to the list of games related to Shadowrun (for those with a sense of humour) is Catalyst's Battlerun:
QUOTE (Vairdic @ Apr 2 2009, 12:42 AM) *
BattleRun: Two great games that taste great together!

As Battletech celebrates its 25th anniversary and Shadowrun celebrates its 20th, the visionaries at Catalyst Game Labs have, for the first time ever, brought these two worlds together!

Contains a summary of the new Eighth World setting, nine new character archetypes, and a roleplaying adventure that involves your characters in the excitement, glamor, and sheer ludicrousness of the Best Ever Tournament.

http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=28

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lokii
post Jul 4 2016, 10:28 PM
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I suggest using an etherpad. I copied the questions to this one as a start: https://etherpad.net/p/sredfaq If haven't used one before, feel free to try it. There is an undo button in the tool bar.


Battletech-Crossover: I don't think there is anything substantive, but some speculation always floated around. For example Ancient History on his SR-ED-crossover page:
QUOTE
Theoretical crossovers with FASA's Battletech and Crucible settings will not be addressed, though you're more than welcome to look into it if you so desire.
I don't even remember what Crucible is.
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Sendaz
post Jul 4 2016, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 4 2016, 06:28 PM) *
I don't even remember what Crucible is.


http://leviathanwar.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01...alm-review.html

http://www.keepwargaming.co.uk/fasa-9000-c...ules-1186-p.asp
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Bull
post Jul 5 2016, 04:22 AM
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I put two deliberate references into Season 4 of Shadowrun missions (and Artifacts Unbound).

One is Simon Andrews, a mage who SURGE'd into a humoid lizard that is a deliberate T'skrang reference.

The other is an artifact that is the focus of the first Season 4 mission, the Morel Stone. It's a small obsidian rock that has a faint magical aura that has a vague resemblance to a living aura, and is part of a larger stone. And Morel translates from Sperethiel into "Life". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Easter eggs more than anything, but fun.
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JanessaVR
post Jul 5 2016, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (Bull @ Jul 4 2016, 08:22 PM) *
I put two deliberate references into Season 4 of Shadowrun missions (and Artifacts Unbound).

One is Simon Andrews, a mage who SURGE'd into a humoid lizard that is a deliberate T'skrang reference.

The other is an artifact that is the focus of the first Season 4 mission, the Morel Stone. It's a small obsidian rock that has a faint magical aura that has a vague resemblance to a living aura, and is part of a larger stone. And Morel translates from Sperethiel into "Life". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Easter eggs more than anything, but fun.

Appreciate the Easter Eggs, Bull. I'm working on assembling these in a Word Document, and I'll post the outline in my original post here. I was hoping to have made more headway over the holiday weekend, but I ended up working for some of it.

EDIT: And now I've done so. Check out the original post.
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lokii
post Jul 5 2016, 10:17 PM
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We should also add a list of links to some of the prior work.

Also maybe you could put the link to the etherpad in the first post: https://etherpad.net/p/sredfaq I think that might be an easier way to add information to a draft version of an answer, rather than posting in the thread.

QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 5 2016, 12:41 AM) *
Tauren? Hm, reminds me of Warcraft 3.
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JanessaVR
post Jul 5 2016, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 5 2016, 03:17 PM) *
We should also add a list of links to some of the prior work.

Also maybe you could put the link to the etherpad in the first post: https://etherpad.net/p/sredfaq I think that might be an easier way to add information to a draft version of an answer, rather than posting in the thread.

Tauren? Hm, reminds me of Warcraft 3.

Yes, definitely want links to all the previous efforts, good idea. And it's only just, since we'll clearly be building on the work of those who have come before us.

That said, I'm ambitious enough to want to replace the old efforts. The Ancient Files is basically gone, and all we have left is an old copy (though I'm certainly glad it's there). Most of the other ones probably haven't been updated in years. I say, if we're going to do this, let's do it right and go all the way, and incorporate all of the info we can into one location, all fresh and updated.

I've got a Dropbox account that I've hardly ever used - I need to look into setting up a public downloads folder that I can link to from this thread. Then people can download the most recent version of the FAQ as it's being developed.

The end result can be a one-stop-shopping resource for anyone, newbie or veteran, looking for SR/ED crossover info.
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DeathStrobe
post Jul 6 2016, 12:03 AM
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Why not just update the Shadowrun Wiki? It already has a lot of Earthdawn info in it.
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JanessaVR
post Jul 6 2016, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 5 2016, 05:03 PM) *
Why not just update the Shadowrun Wiki? It already has a lot of Earthdawn info in it.

I just popped over to check again. Its ED info seems pretty scanty and is all over the place. I, at least, have something more comprehensive and centralized in mind.
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