OOC New Beginnings DAWN Options

[Thvor]

I agree--hope everything's ok with Hydro.

[Crossbow]

Thvor, Torley will get another shot at learning the language.

[Titan]

I get the feeling that the boat ride is going to be long, uncomfortable, and mostly uneventful - at least internally.

I was just coming on to say basically the same things the Necrogigas and Mercy did in their IC posts. That Clem was going to be withdrawn for nearly the entirety of the trip because she is torn between killing these pigs and not screwing over the group.

I will pose an OOC question to the group: How do the players feel about killing the pirates after we get to Lagos? I know Clementine is contemplating it, at least the "captain." And I want to get player input as to how far to go, or not.

[Mercy]

Snow would actually not really consider that option on her own. She is too used to dealing with this sort of criminal that can provide goods or services. In her mind, the pirates could become a useful contact in the future.

Not to say that she would not support her companions if something goes down, but her initial vote would be no.

[Titan]

I appreciate the character insight Mercy (it was going to be my followup), but right now I am looking for player insight.

I don't know you people. Haven't hung out with you for weeks, maybe months before this game. I have no idea how easily y'all can separate character morality from your own morality, or even where your personal morality lies.

If you, Mercy (Just because I need someone as an example), were to tell me that you aren't comfortable with murder, then I would take that off the table - no problem. There would be a lot of threatening, maybe some violence, but I can work with it being a little to "ultra-violent" for people.

Maybe we are all experienced RPers here, but it can be easy to forget that while nearly all people who enter a game can put aside their personal moralilties when dealing with characters that are propped up as "the bad guys," sideline characters like these pirates (who might be considered allies) aren't always so easy to separate.

So, for everyone else, I'll take character insight for sure (it'll save me asking about that later). But right now I am looking for player insight.

[Necrogigas]

Do as you will Titan, keep in mind though Jane specifically told the group that she didn't want a trail of bodies in Lagos.

[Titan]

I haven't forgotten. I also haven't even got up to the point where I weigh out if it is a good idea or not from the character perspective.

[Mercy]

Sorry, I interpreted the question wrong. I am personally not a fan of murder, but these are very bad people and I personally have no problem killing them. I also know that this a game and have already separated me from Snow. She is a Vory soldier and has done some horrible things in the past, but she also looks at that s from tho position that these could be contacts.

[farothel]

Sammy doesn't see the need to kill these guys, unless they try to screw them over. In fact, she only has one lethal spell and that's fireball, which is a very bad choice on a boat in the middle of the ocean (more boats have been sunk due to fire than any other reason).

As to me personally, if I were to live in shadowrun, I'd probably fall under the wageslave category, so that has little to do with what's going on at the moment.

[Titan]

Okay, so far - if I am not mistaken - if falls like this:

The players aren't against it (still waiting for Thvor to weigh in), but all of the characters aren't certain it is a good idea.

That tells me were to go next.

Thank you all.

[Thvor]

Sorry, was busy all weekend; just now getting caught up.

As a gamer, I don't have too much of an issue separating personal morality from in-game. If I did, I think I'd have an issue playing ShadowRun in the first place, since the starting assumption is that our characters are willing to work outside the law.

Sam, however, has an issue with fighting and bloodshed. He tolerates O'Connor's violent tendencies as a necessary evil, since it's saved him a few times, but I don't think he'll ever approve of it. Sam has seen that Con is damn good at what he does and can appreciate the skill, but that's about as far as that goes. Of course, Sam's more than willing to talk someone into ruining themselves; usually financially, though there's at least one instance in his backstory where he probably incited a suicide. Sam wouldn't go for straight-out murdering the captain, but would be perfectly fine with arranging a mutiny attempt that could do the job, for instance.

...on an unrelated note: Crossbow, am I correct that the language the sailors are using is different from the Yoruba Sam managed to learn?

[Crossbow]

Yes, the language is called Igbo.

[farothel]

For a run-down on Lagos, I would suggest Feral Cities. I've done a tabletop campaign in Lagos (a self-written one by the GM) and I play a character from Lagos in another PbP, so I've read that part a couple of times.

The Yoruba and the Igbo are the two main tribes in that region and, surprise surprise, they don't really like each other.

[Mercy]

Sam, my hero. Thank you for thinking of Snow. It hurts, but it was a price she had to pay for the role, and Con needed to do it,

[Titan]

Sorry, was busy all weekend; just now getting caught up.

Not an issue with me. I get it. I was just looking to "get to know" the other players in the group.

So the final rundown is (barring any slip ups on my part):

None of the players are against it.

All of the characters aren't for it - except maybe O'Connor, and even he may be uncharacteristically not interested.

[Necrogigas]

O'Connor is not a fan of these people, but Jane already made her position clear on the matter and the beatings were Snow's idea. He's pretty wound up at the moment, but not enough to risk his cut of the payday.

[Titan]

Anyone else see the twisted humor in the fact that the same NPC who said "don't leave a trail of bodies," is also the one who said "don't worry about how you are getting out, I already have that planned."

In other words, how Clementine should have heard it (if her player wasn't taking the other players input into account): "Go ahead and slaughter all of these pirates on this boat. You have no reason to ever think of them again."

[Crossbow]

THAT IS NOT WHAT JANE IS SAYING!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Thvor]

Anyone else see the twisted humor in the fact that the same NPC who said "don't leave a trail of bodies," is also the one who said "don't worry about how you are getting out, I already have that planned."

In other words, how Clementine should have heard it (if her player wasn't taking the other players input into account): "Go ahead and slaughter all of these pirates on this boat. You have no reason to ever think of them again."

That's an...interesting interpretation. Not really sure I'm following the logic, though.

The pirates were not Jane's route in--she had a plane lined up, but that fell through. But just because someone isn't immediately useful/part of the intended plan doesn't mean you can just eliminate them.

[Titan]

The logic is super simple.

Ever since O'Connor had to kick the crap out of a woman (a teammate no less) just to "play nice" with these drekstains, Clementine has wanted to end them. (Her defining moment as a young Yakuza was "handling" a rival enforcer roughing up a working girl with "efficiency" and "style.")

While they were useful, she did her best to avoid them.

Now that she has the realization that they may be needed to get back out of Lagos, Jane bitchily tells her not to waste her time thinking about how to get out.
((EDITed to add: In case it isn't clear, Clementine is thinking about getting out of Lagos, and it is a reason to not piss off the pirates. On top of that, Jane bitchily tells Clementine twice to not waste her time thinking about getting out.))

In other words, a vengeful, semi-feminist, Ork would have zero reason to care what happens to them.

Interpret that as you feel like.

[farothel]

We better not kill those, as the only place we can do that is after we arrive at the docks in Lagos (none of us can drive the boat). While gunfights in Lagos aren't all that noticable, there are some considerations.
If I recall correctly these guys are Igbo, meaning they are of the same tribe as the Area Boys in Lagos. Some will be at the docks to meet this boat and they can quickly call in more help than we have bullets. So for now let's play nice and we'll see later.

Snow's damage is stun, right?

[Titan]

So for now let's play nice and we'll see later.

You don't have to tell me.

I even came up with a way to work into the character that wasn't forced. Now... Should Jane continue to be a Grade A cunt and tell Clementine that caring about the pirates conditions are above her pay grade a third time... Things will change.

Snow's damage is stun, right?

Yes, unfortunately. The only way to heal it is through First Aid and / or rest.

[Crossbow]

One of these days I am going to figure out how I seem to always have issues translating things to players.

Problem is healthy paranoia is a good thing in a shadowrunner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Thvor]

One of these days I am going to figure out how I seem to always have issues translating things to players.

Problem is healthy paranoia is a good thing in a shadowrunner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I'll be honest and admit that Jane's "don't worry about extraction" attitude tickles my paranoia a bit--guess I've seen too many movies where the hero is sent into a perilous situation, told "we'll get you out when the job's done", only to find that the extraction plan is more along the lines of "dead men tell no tales".

I've been playing with you long enough that I'm willing to trust that our game isn't like that...though there's that small corner of my mind that always wonders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[farothel]

One of these days I am going to figure out how I seem to always have issues translating things to players.

Problem is healthy paranoia is a good thing in a shadowrunner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's also an inherent problem of a PbP. If you're around a table (or in a skype video chat) you see faces, hear voices, see body language and stuff like that. It can make a huge difference in how things are perceived by the players (or by the GM if the players write things down).

I don't see any real solution for that, except maybe to put more descriptions in the posts.

Anyway, I don't think any of the other characters are all that happy about what happened between Snow and O'Connor. I know Sammy isn't, but sometimes things happen. And technically speaking all our characters are criminals. I think Clem also had to do things for the Yakuza she didn't really like.
Also, this is not the last of such things we will see in Lagos. As I said, I know the SR version of it quite well (and I've seen some documentaries about the RL version, which isn't all that nice either) and it's not a nice place. The Seattle Barrens are a nice vacation spot compared to most of Lagos.