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Stingray
post Nov 7 2017, 11:24 AM
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I have a couple question about Israel 2070's.
1. Would there be compulsive millitary servive for all citizens?
2. Attitudes about Metahumans,magic,changelings?
3. Megacorporate presence ( i think Ares would be VERY noticiable there)
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Kren Cooper
post Nov 7 2017, 01:15 PM
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1. Would there be compulsive military service for all citizens?
My gut call is "Yes". As a nation, they are still surrounded by a number of people, some of whom with very different belief structures and with a firm counterpoint. They still have a relatively small nation, with a limited population to draw on, a border to defend, and rely on a relatively well trained professional army to keep them secure. As it is now, I would see this as a small army with long service, bulked by conscription done professionally and as an accepted part of culture, rather than seen as "forced".

2. Attitudes about Metahumans,magic,changelings?
Jews now are based off a number of different branches (German / Spanish origins, multiple branches from these roots) and they generally accept the presence of non-traditional Jewish families to the faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Jews & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China). I would see that for the most part they would accept Metas without too much issue, as long as you had faith. Magic I would see as being split, and like Catholics there being the acceptable sort wielded by Rabbis and in defence of the faith, and the unacceptable "other" sort. I seem to remember that a lot of ally spirit / golem research came out of, or is related to Israel.

3. Megacorporate presence ( i think Ares would be VERY noticiable there)
I would agree - Ares, and a lot of the old US corps would be present, purely on historical grounds. I could see SK trying to be in, and that being a political thornbush - the desire to have modern military might and top end research, tempered against the "German" aspect in some peoples eyes.
There may also be a Japanacorp presence, depending on how you want to play things in your campaign - there were several thousand Jews rescued from Nazi-Occupied Europe by the policies surrounding Japan's temporary pro-Jewish attitude during WWII and that might well be played on to get business deals, for instance. Either way, I would see Israel as having strict control over the megas and AAs, and controlling them in a fashion like the Tirs / Aztlan, and restricting extra-territoriality or ownership in some way such as demanding that at least 51% of the company is owned by the government, or by Israeli citizens.
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Stingray
post Nov 7 2017, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Nov 7 2017, 03:15 PM) *
1. Would there be compulsive military service for all citizens?
My gut call is "Yes". As a nation, they are still surrounded by a number of people, some of whom with very different belief structures and with a firm counterpoint. They still have a relatively small nation, with a limited population to draw on, a border to defend, and rely on a relatively well trained professional army to keep them secure. As it is now, I would see this as a small army with long service, bulked by conscription done professionally and as an accepted part of culture, rather than seen as "forced".

2. Attitudes about Metahumans,magic,changelings?
Jews now are based off a number of different branches (German / Spanish origins, multiple branches from these roots) and they generally accept the presence of non-traditional Jewish families to the faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Jews & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China). I would see that for the most part they would accept Metas without too much issue, as long as you had faith. Magic I would see as being split, and like Catholics there being the acceptable sort wielded by Rabbis and in defence of the faith, and the unacceptable "other" sort. I seem to remember that a lot of ally spirit / golem research came out of, or is related to Israel.

3. Megacorporate presence ( i think Ares would be VERY noticiable there)
I would agree - Ares, and a lot of the old US corps would be present, purely on historical grounds. I could see SK trying to be in, and that being a political thornbush - the desire to have modern military might and top end research, tempered against the "German" aspect in some peoples eyes.
There may also be a Japanacorp presence, depending on how you want to play things in your campaign - there were several thousand Jews rescued from Nazi-Occupied Europe by the policies surrounding Japan's temporary pro-Jewish attitude during WWII and that might well be played on to get business deals, for instance. Either way, I would see Israel as having strict control over the megas and AAs, and controlling them in a fashion like the Tirs / Aztlan, and restricting extra-territoriality or ownership in some way such as demanding that at least 51% of the company is owned by the government, or by Israeli citizens.

TU for answers!! In Israel language-choises would be at least Jiddish,hebrew,arabic,and english..would u agree?
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Kren Cooper
post Nov 7 2017, 02:43 PM
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At least. I would probably add Japanese / Chinese, and possibly Russian / Indian as well. I think they would have maintained their educational system through the crash, as best they can, and that educational progress would still be highly sought after.

The country is only 20 thousand square kilometers (less than half the size of Denmark, The Dominican Republic, the state of Michigan, or Switzerland; roughly the same size as Wales, El Salvador or the state of New Jersey , with a 2017 population of ~8 million (same as London, New York, but only 1/3 the population of Shanghai) - but their GDP is nearly 350 billion dollars, and their development index is 0.899 (one of the top 20 in the world). That's a country that values its education system and workforce, and fights hard for its social standing and infrastructure, in my book.
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Sascha Morlok
post Nov 7 2017, 07:32 PM
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There is some information about Israel in Shadows of Asia (p. 107 to 111).

Corporate wise there are only 3 major players, Ares, the Frankfurt Bank Association and the local corp Checkpoint Software, which was recently acquired by Horizon (Market Panic). Also you may assume, tht the company Delek Dragon (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delek_Group) mentioned in Feral Cities is a Israelian corp.
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Sengir
post Nov 8 2017, 12:07 AM
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QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Nov 7 2017, 03:15 PM) *
1. Would there be compulsive military service for all citizens?
My gut call is "Yes". As a nation, they are still surrounded by a number of people, some of whom with very different belief structures and with a firm counterpoint. They still have a relatively small nation, with a limited population to draw on, a border to defend, and rely on a relatively well trained professional army to keep them secure.

The SR timeline is that Israel and Palestine agreed on a two state solution, and when the Eurowars 2.0 broke out shortly afterwards the Palestinians even sided with Israel because they did not want to lose their independence again. I know, sparkles and rainbows, but no longer needing to sustain an occupation force would mean a lot less draw on manpower. With the Sixth World in general having moved to smaller units instead of large-scale engagements, conscription might no longer be needed, or at least have been scaled back.

QUOTE
2. Attitudes about Metahumans,magic,changelings?
Jews now are based off a number of different branches (German / Spanish origins, multiple branches from these roots) and they generally accept the presence of non-traditional Jewish families to the faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Jews & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China).

On the other hand, Ethiopian Jews report basically the same racism visible minorities face anywhere else, and SR basically transposes racism based on skin color into racism based on metatypes. So while AFAIK there is nothing in canon about Israel being like old Japan, I don't see it all being sunshine and rainbows either.

Magic on the other hand seems to have played a major role in defending Israel against the Alliance for Allah, which would certainly improve the image of magic use. And going back to the previous question, might conceivably mean that conscription is focused on people with Awakened talent.
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Stingray
post Nov 8 2017, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Nov 7 2017, 04:43 PM) *
At least. I would probably add Japanese / Chinese, and possibly Russian / Indian as well. I think they would have maintained their educational system through the crash, as best they can, and that educational progress would still be highly sought after.

The country is only 20 thousand square kilometers (less than half the size of Denmark, The Dominican Republic, the state of Michigan, or Switzerland; roughly the same size as Wales, El Salvador or the state of New Jersey , with a 2017 population of ~8 million (same as London, New York, but only 1/3 the population of Shanghai) - but their GDP is nearly 350 billion dollars, and their development index is 0.899 (one of the top 20 in the world). That's a country that values its education system and workforce, and fights hard for its social standing and infrastructure, in my book.

...after 2 sh**t -shows called VITAS 1 and 2 i would estimate population of 2070's be like 6 miillion...
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Stingray
post Nov 8 2017, 06:37 AM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Nov 8 2017, 02:07 AM) *
The SR timeline is that Israel and Palestine agreed on a two state solution, and when the Eurowars 2.0 broke out shortly afterwards the Palestinians even sided with Israel because they did not want to lose their independence again. I know, sparkles and rainbows, but no longer needing to sustain an occupation force would mean a lot less draw on manpower. With the Sixth World in general having moved to smaller units instead of large-scale engagements, conscription might no longer be needed, or at least have been scaled back.


On the other hand, Ethiopian Jews report basically the same racism visible minorities face anywhere else, and SR basically transposes racism based on skin color into racism based on metatypes. So while AFAIK there is nothing in canon about Israel being like old Japan, I don't see it all being sunshine and rainbows either.

Magic on the other hand seems to have played a major role in defending Israel against the Alliance for Allah, which would certainly improve the image of magic use. And going back to the previous question, might conceivably mean that conscription is focused on people with Awakened talent.

..I agree that magic would be great asset. Specially Shamans/Mages of whose totem deal with Earth (Agriculture),Healing. When magic is in picture, somehow metatype do not matter in most cases..
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lokii
post Nov 8 2017, 09:53 AM
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I think you have the wrong impression regarding Israel's economic relationship with Germany and with Japan (today).

QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Nov 7 2017, 03:15 PM) *
I could see SK trying to be in, and that being a political thornbush - the desire to have modern military might and top end research, tempered against the "German" aspect in some peoples eyes.
On a personal level many Israelis especially those of German descent boycotted German goods and some might do so to this day. But West German reparations were an important part of Israel's economic development. Germany and Israel are trading partners. The German-Israeli Chamber of Industry and Commerce was established in 1967 and German companies are operating in the country.

QUOTE (Kren Cooper @ Nov 7 2017, 03:15 PM) *
There may also be a Japanacorp presence, depending on how you want to play things in your campaign - there were several thousand Jews rescued from Nazi-Occupied Europe by the policies surrounding Japan's temporary pro-Jewish attitude during WWII and that might well be played on to get business deals, for instance.
It's the economic relationship between Israel and Japan that is underdeveloped. Which has nothing to do with World War II and everything with oil, specifically the stance Japan took towards Israel during the 1970s oil crises. Recently there is an effort to improve economic cooperation.


Regarding the Sixth World, in Shadows of Asia (early 2060s)—quote "Today, foreign investors control Israel’s economy." (p.110)—the German Frankfurt Bank Association and Ares are named as the top megacorporations in Israel. I think more recently Saeder-Krupp established a stronger presence. And from a Mossad briefing in Dragons of the Sixth World (also early 2060s):

QUOTE
Lofwyr is one of the most influential forces in the Middle East. From his near-total control of the Arabian oilfields to the numerous shell companies fronting for Saeder-Krupp, Lofwyr directly and indirectly affects many of the business interests both in and around Israel. The majority of Saeder-Krupp's Middle Eastern concerns are veiled behind front companies and subsidiary operations to avoid the strong undercurrents of Islamic sentiment against dragons.
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Sengir
post Nov 18 2017, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (lokii @ Nov 8 2017, 10:53 AM) *
On a personal level many Israelis especially those of German descent boycotted German goods and some might do so to this day. But West German reparations were an important part of Israel's economic development. Germany and Israel are trading partners. The German-Israeli Chamber of Industry and Commerce was established in 1967 and German companies are operating in the country.

As far as military equipment is concerned it goes back even further. The Zionist paramilitaries in Palestine and later the IDF used literal boatloads of Wehrmacht K98s, with swastikas (usually hidden under a few scratches) and everything. And vice versa, Germany acquired the Uzi basically right after the official rearmament.
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