Salted Wounds [OOC], a Deep Black Sea game Options

[Jack_Spade]

The former.

[Volker]

?

For the FBA + weapon focus. I don't know how much it costs, thus I also don't know how much you give us for it.

[SquirrelDude]

For the FBA + weapon focus. I don't know how much it costs, thus I also don't know how much you give us for it.

It's from the vamp we killed. Just take it out of Sharkboy's cut of the the Foci sale. It's valued at in terms of base gear

38,285

Weapon Foci R2 14000

Armor 2000
AR Gloves 150
Concealed Pocket 40
Fire Resist 6 1500
Insulation 61500
Nonconductivity 6 1500
Chemical Seal 6000
Transys Avalon 5000
Miniwelder 250
Gel Packs 1500
YNT Softweave 2000

Helmet 500
Flare Comp 250
Image Link 25
Smartlink 2000
Trodes 70

Though if he has to pay for it, he might just sell it because he can probably get something better, as much as it makes a neat trophy. He can't use the Chem seal or helmet because he'll always wear his mask.

[Volker]

your choice. The deal Thanee suggested was that you pay half the price of a new one, thus making it half-price for you and still leaving something for us.

[SquirrelDude]

Alright, so quick maths

Vamp FBA 38285 value
Remove the Helmet valued at 2845, the R6 Commlink valued at 5000, and the AR Gloves valued at 150. Those stay in the team pot for gear to fence.

New sale value is 7995 leaving 30,290 remaining to compensate team for.
Sharkboy pays the 40% Sale through Sunkidd value, 12116 total, to the other 4 members. So 3029 to each instead of 2423.2, a profit of 605 to every other team member.

This makes the total payouts
Sharkboy: 13163.6
Other 4: 28308.6


From there Sharkboy incurs the costs of retooling the gear.

1500 Fitting+Paintjob
Removing concealed pockets, extracting the miniwelder
2500 Adding Shock Weave and an Auto-Injector.

For a final cost a little over 16116, which is worth it for me to keep either way.


Sidenote: If Anna would like to keep the Power Focus, valued at 108000 then the same method would payouts as follows

Sharkboy: 15323.6
Anna: -23531.4 (would need to pay in from her credsticks)
Other 3: 30468.6

[Volker]

The part to compensate is acutally 30,290, but 40 % thereof are indeed 12,116. You somehow miraculously magicked that error away ^^

What "we girls" agreed upon was that anyone who wants something out of the package pays 50 % of it, which would then be 15,145 - or 15,000 sharp, as no one could calculate the tool's worth so accurately.

If, however, Sharkboy would insist on not paying the full 50 % but only the 40 % despite the fact that it's bnc's and Anna's connection who can make the 40 % possible, bnc won't fight back. At the moment of distribution, she's not interested in the money but only in Kerstin. Which is to say: "It's fine by me, as long as you're aware that you're overruling Nova and bnc (and maybe Anna, but I doubt she cares at all)"

Same goes for Anna, of course. bnc won't object to the 0.4 policy with more than a shrug.

@Squirrel
What do you mean by "a profit of 604 to every other team member"?

[Thanee]

p.451 core:
Headware
"These small complex devices are inserted into the head and typically constructed via less-invasive nanosurgery. Items that have a Capacity Cost [in brackets] may be installed in cyberlimbs instead, costing Capacity rather than Essence"

So, yes.

Aha! Missed that part. Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

your choice. The deal Thanee suggested was that you pay half the price of a new one, thus making it half-price for you and still leaving something for us.

It's a suggestion, but I think a very fair one. It will allow the ones who want some of those expensive foci get them pretty cheap, while giving those who have no use for the magic a bit more of the cash.

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

Maybe it is better to use 40% (same as sale value) instead of half, though. Not a huge difference, anyways, and makes things easier to calculate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Let's see...

- a body armor (Weapon Focus II), worth 38,000¥ (rounded down)
- power focus VI (ring), worth 108,000¥
- health sustaining focus VI (ring), worth 24,000¥
- manipulation sustaining focus VI (ring), worth 24,000¥
- centering focus VIII (ring), worth 72,000¥
- counterspelling focus VI (amulet), worth 24,000¥
- centering focus VI (amulet), worth 56,000¥

Total market price 346,000¥ (40% of which would be 138,400¥)

- 400,000¥ in credsticks


If we sell everything, each of us gets 107,680¥. So that is everyone's share in Nuyen or items.

If Sharkboy wants to keep the armor sans helmet, commlink, gloves, that would be 40% of 30,000¥, or 12,000¥, so he would get that plus 95,680¥.
If Anna wants to keep the power focus, that would be 40% of 108,000¥, or 43,200¥, so she would get that plus 64,480¥.
And so on ...

Does that sound good?

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

Meanwhile some rule questions (to avoid spamming Jack's personal message box).

How do spiders combine decks with RCCs?
1) Can I form my persona on a deck and let the RCC handle the drones? If so, can I still jump from one drone to another with a simple action? How is noise reduction and initiative handled?
2) If I jump in, do I have to choose from which gear I jump in? Or do I just jump in by using the CR? If so, what about programs that run on my deck and/or my RCC?

thanks!

[EDIT]
ah, and a general decking question
3) in order to use a cyberdeck, how far can I be away from it? Do I need to be plugged in? Could I, for example, use a cyberdeck that's a couple of hundred meters away from me, establishing a direct connection?

[SquirrelDude]

The part to compensate is actually 30,290, but 40 % thereof are indeed 12,116. You somehow miraculously magicked that error away ^^

What "we girls" agreed upon was that anyone who wants something out of the package pays 50 % of it, which would then be 15,145 - or 15,000 sharp, as no one could calculate the tool's worth so accurately.

If, however, Sharkboy would insist on not paying the full 50 % but only the 40 % despite the fact that it's bnc's and Anna's connection who can make the 40 % possible, bnc won't fight back. At the moment of distribution, she's not interested in the money but only in Kerstin. Which is to say: "It's fine by me, as long as you're aware that you're overruling Nova and bnc (and maybe Anna, but I doubt she cares at all)"

Same goes for Anna, of course. bnc won't object to the 0.4 policy with more than a shrug.

@Squirrel
What do you mean by "a profit of 604 to every other team member"?

If the armor is simply kept in the group fund, then the 12116 payout would be split to all 5 members, so 2423 credits per member. With this proposal, Sharkboy pays that 12116 directly to the other 4 members, so 3029 credits per other team member. In exchange for Sharkboy keeping the item, everyone else makes 605* nuyen more than they would otherwise.

[Volker]

If the armor is simply kept in the group fund, then the 12116 payout would be split to all 5 members, so 2423 credits per member. With this proposal, Sharkboy pays that 12116 directly to the other 4 members, so 3029 credits per other team member. In exchange for Sharkboy keeping the item, everyone else makes 605* nuyen more than they would otherwise.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for clarification!

[SquirrelDude]

Maybe it is better to use 40% (same as sale value) instead of half, though. Not a huge difference, anyways, and makes things easier to calculate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Let's see...

- a body armor (Weapon Focus II), worth 38,000¥ (rounded down)
- power focus VI (ring), worth 108,000¥
- health sustaining focus VI (ring), worth 24,000¥
- manipulation sustaining focus VI (ring), worth 24,000¥
- centering focus VIII (ring), worth 72,000¥
- counterspelling focus VI (amulet), worth 24,000¥
- centering focus VI (amulet), worth 56,000¥

Total market price 346,000¥ (40% of which would be 138,400¥)

- 400,000¥ in credsticks


If we sell everything, each of us gets 107,680¥. So that is everyone's share in Nuyen or items.

If Sharkboy wants to keep the armor sans helmet, commlink, gloves, that would be 40% of 30,000¥, or 12,000¥, so he would get that plus 95,680¥.
If Anna wants to keep the power focus, that would be 40% of 108,000¥, or 43,200¥, so she would get that plus 64,480¥.
And so on ...

Does that sound good?

Bye
Thanee

The 107 works by my math, and here's what people would get dependent on whether Anna wants the Foci, and Sharkboy paying 40% for the armor is acceptable. The first set is no one taking any gear. The second set is Sharkboy takes the armor, paying the other 4 members a split of 40% its value. The third is Sharkboy takes the armor and Anna takes the power focus, paying the other 4 members a split of 40% its value.

CODE

Anna Sells Foci, Sharkboy Sells Armor                        
Runner   Base Gear    Sharkboy Payment Anna Payment Gear Total Credstick Total Total
Sharkboy 27703        0                0            27703      80000           107703
Anna     27703        0                0            27703      80000           107703
Other 3  27703        0                0            27703      80000           107703

Anna Sells Foci, Sharkboy Takes Armor                        
Runner   Base Gear    Sharkboy Payment Anna Payment Gear Total Credstick Total Total
Sharkboy 25279.6      -12116           0            13164      80000           93164
Anna     25279.6      3029             0            28309      80000           108309
Other 3  25279.6      3029             0            28309      80000           108309
                        
Anna Takes Foci, Sharkboy Takes Armor                        
Runner   Base Gear    Sharkboy Payment Anna Payment Gear Total Credstick Total Total
Sharkboy 16640        -12116           10800        15324      80000           95324
Anna     16640        3029             -43200       -23531     80000           56469
Other 3  16640        3029             10800        30469      80000           110469

If we're square on Sharkboy paying 40% the armor value to the rest of the team, then he'll go ahead and pay that. It's value and a trophy.


@Jack. So the full text for Hearing Expansion is:

A more unusual advancement that expands the hearing band that normal humans can detect, allowing them to detect both infrasonic sound and ultrasonic within a band ranging from 5 Hz to 50 kHz. The primary advantage of this is hearing ultrasonic devices, but the user can sometimes be distracted, or even deafened, by sounds undetectable to others.

What would "hearing ultrasonic devices" look like mechanically.

[Thanee]

If we use 40% for buying gear from the loot pile, it makes no difference whether one of us "buys" it (with his/her share) or we sell it, as it is the same number.

Means, the share will be the same for everyone, regardless of whether something is taken from the loot or not.

You only need to figure out the 40% market price of the item(s) you want and deduct that much from your own share, as you get it "in items" instead.

It's the most straightforward and simple way to do it, I think.

Bye
Thanee

[SquirrelDude]

That's what I'm proposing.

Instead of:
Item going to Sunkid for X Value*.40 split among 5 people

it's
Item going to [player] for X Value*.40 split among 4 people who don't keep the item.

That way the people who are choosing not to keep the item at value are getting some extra cash. It's the one I proposed, and I already did all the math for it in my last post.

If you instead make it:
Item going to [player] for X Value*.40 split among the 5 people

Then the [player] is only effectively paying *32 of the item's value to the rest of the group.

[Thanee]

No, that is not correct.

Since the items are included in the total shares at 40% value, it does not matter if we keep them for 40% value or sell them for 40% value. The shares remain the same.

That is why the 40% is much better than the 50% (my original proposal) for figuring this out, since there is no real math needed.

Bye
Thanee

[SquirrelDude]

The value in the shares must change for Sharkboy to actually pay the agreed 40% value

To use a made up item of 100¥ value to demonstrate.

Option A. Fence through the Sunkid, and that 40¥ is split among all 5 runners. The share is 8¥.
Option B. Sharkboy keeps the item, and that 40¥ is split among the other 4 runners, their share is 10¥. Sharkboy's share is -40¥, the agreed 40% the value of the item.
Option C. Sharkboy keeps the item, and that 40¥ is split among all 5 runners. The share is 8¥. Sharkboy's effective share is -32¥, less than the agreed 40% of the value of the item because he is repaying himself with his own money.

I am and I have been proposing option B because it ensures both sides come out ahead. Sharkboy gets the item at the agreed discount, and the other runners make extra cash by cutting one person out of the split for that item.

[Thanee]

The mistake you are making is, that you want to split the amount again, while that has already been done, since the item value is included in the shares.

Ok, let me also make a simple example.

We have 1 Item worth 100¥, which we can sell for 40¥, and 460¥ in cash. In total, that means 500¥, or 100¥ per person (5 shares). The item is included in this total.

Now, your share can either be 100¥. Or it can be 60¥ and the item. Either way, it is 100¥ in "share value".

It makes no difference, if we actually sell the item or keep it. The share remains the same.

Bye
Thanee

[SquirrelDude]

Doing it that way is option C, where Sharkboy only pays 32% of the value.

Sharkboy removes the 100¥, which can be sold for 40¥, and 460¥ cash, for a total of 500¥ or 100¥ per person.
Sharkboy then puts 40¥ back into the pot with the 460¥, for a total of 500¥ or 100¥ per person. The pot is made whole, and the shares do not change.
However, when Sharkboy takes out his 100¥, included in that is 8¥ of the 40¥ he put back in for the item. He has now, in effect, only paid 32¥

[Thanee]

You just think too complicate, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sharkboy removes the 100¥, which can be sold for 40¥, and 460¥ cash, for a total of 500¥ or 100¥ per person.

No, you do not remove 100¥ for the item. You only remove 40¥, the amount you "pay" for it (the 40% of its market price), along with 60¥ in cash for your full share of 100¥.

The item's market price of 100¥ no longer exists. For all purposes its worth is 40¥. Keep or sell. Same value.

Sharkboy then puts 40¥ back into the pot with the 460¥, for a total of 500¥ or 100¥ per person. The pot is made whole, and the shares do not change.

The pot was at 500¥ already (460¥ in cash and 40¥ in loot). There is nothing put back into it. You only take your share of 100¥ out of it. That's all there is to do.

However, when Sharkboy takes out his 100¥, included in that is 8¥ of the 40¥ he put back in for the item. He has now, in effect, only paid 32¥

You take your share. Full stop. That's it. Your share is 100¥ (60¥ in cash, and the item, that has a sale value of 40¥).

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

For simplicity's sake let's keep. Thanee's suggestion.
- Everyone gets the same amount of cash we would get from selling the items.
- Runners that want to keep an item buy it for the same price as the sell price.
(so they get an item, but less money, if the item is more than their share than the runner, adds from personal funds).
- We make sure that we did not duplicate items (e.g., there is just one power focus).

[SquirrelDude]

My apologies, I was being obtuse. I understand what you were saying now, and it saves Sharkboy some cash. That method works for this item.

CODE

Runner   Loot  Nuyen  Split Credsticks Nuyen  Total Value
Sharkboy 12116 15586  27702 80000      95587  107702
Anna     0     27702  27702 80000      107702 107702
Other 3  0     27702  27702 80000      107702 107702

Anna would need to pay in some cred sticks to cover for the power focus because that item is worth more on its own than a singe split.

CODE

Runner   Loot  Nuyen  Split Credsticks Nuyen  Total Value
Sharkboy 12116 15586  27702 80000      95587  107702
Anna     43200 -15498 27702 64502      64502  107702
Other 3  0     27702  27702 80000      107702 107702

Anyway, here is what I am very probably committing to for Sharkboy's progression

Nuyen
11199 in bank

Gains
10,000¥, second half job payment
80,000¥, credsticks
15,586¥, gear sold through Sunkid & Sharkboy keeps armor

Expenses
12,000¥ 3 months of traveler lifestyle. Sharkboy now staying in Sofitel Frankfurt Opera
4,000¥ Fitting/Painting claimed FBA, adding Shock Weave and Auto-Injector
5,500¥ Muay Thai Training w/3 Techniques (Kick Attack, Crushing Jaws, Ti Khao)
540¥ 3 months of regular recreational Dopadrine use

Cyberware/Bioware purchases
36,000¥ Standard Bone Density R4 -> Deltaware Bone Density R4
24,000¥ Standard Damage Compensator R1 -> Deltaware Damage Compensator R4 24000
16,800¥ Standard Orthoskin R3 + Sharkskin -> Standard Orthoskin R4 + Sharkskin
7,200¥ Standard Smartlink -> Deltaware Smartlink
3,600¥ Deltaware Nicitating Membranes
1,800¥ Standard Datajack -> Deltware Datajack

Leaves Essence Hole of 0.17
19,846 remaining in bank account.

Karma
1 Karma saved up

Gains
75 Karma for mission completion

Expenses
17 Muay Thai Training w/3 Techniques (Kick Attack, Crushing Jaws, Ti Khao)
6 Bonding the FBA Weapon Focus
7 Unarmed Combat Skill Specialization [Muay Thai]
24 Adrenaline Surge Quality

That leaves 22 left to use in some way. I'm thinking of putting that into Body 3->4, or Will 3->4, or spending it on some Tough As Nails Quality purchases, or maybe just saving it away for when Sharkboy finally feels comfortable initiating and gaining a power point.

[Thanee]

My apologies, I was being obtuse. I understand what you were saying now, and it saves Sharkboy some cash. That method works for this item.

No worries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anna would need to pay in some cred sticks to cover for the power focus because that item is worth more on its own than a singe split.

That's right, technically, but not a problem, as it is just a matter of distribution, if you see it as one single big mass, instead of seperate pieces (the sale value and the cash).

As long as the 40% is less than a total share, it is no problem at all. And none of the items is worth that much (if someone would get all the foci, that might be different).

The power focus is 108k¥, so 40% (43,200¥) is well below the 107k¥ (+change) everyone gets out of it.

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

@Thanee I am amazed :-O I found Squirrel's explanation totally logical. Good thinking ^^

@all I'd be happy if someone could shed some light an these questions:

Meanwhile some rule questions (to avoid spamming Jack's personal message box).

How do spiders combine decks with RCCs?
1) Can I form my persona on a deck and let the RCC handle the drones? If so, can I still jump from one drone to another with a simple action? How is noise reduction and initiative handled?
2) If I jump in, do I have to choose from which gear I jump in? Or do I just jump in by using the CR? If so, what about programs that run on my deck and/or my RCC?
ah, and a general decking question
3) in order to use a cyberdeck, how far can I be away from it? Do I need to be plugged in? Could I, for example, use a cyberdeck that's a couple of hundred meters away from me, establishing a direct connection?

Thanks

[Thanee]

Sorry, no clue about SR5 hacking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Bye
Thanee