Salted Wounds [OOC], a Deep Black Sea game Options

[Gilga]

Damage resist: 17d6t5 5 I'll use my last edge here.
Damage resist (reroll): 12d6t5 2

Anna takes 12 damage and is with 1 box of overflow. I was hoping for the wall to grant her some protection, but I guess we were ambushed by better equipped professional. Well... Perhaps I should burn edge it is a shitty situation. First time I was oneshot before doing anything in combat.

[Jack_Spade]

Sorry, but I distinctly remember giving the warning about the radar equipped merc - as well as mentioning the cheap building materials.

[Volker]

Aww shit! Nice one, though, admittedly.

Guess that makes it Nova's turn... -.-

[SquirrelDude]

Damage resist: 17d6t5 5 I'll use my last edge here.
Damage resist (reroll): 12d6t5 2

Anna takes 12 damage and is with 1 box of overflow. I was hoping for the wall to grant her some protection, but I guess we were ambushed by better equipped professional. Well... Perhaps I should burn edge it is a shitty situation. First time I was oneshot before doing anything in combat.

It was a bit of bad luck and bad planning

1. Bad luck the mercs had the best initiative.
2. Bad luck Anna's 27 lost to the Merc's 27 on whatever the tiebreaker for initiative is
3. Bad luck that the gun bnc fried was the pistol and not the shotgun
4. Bad planning for Anna to go upstairs in a vulnerable position, isolated from the other members of the team.

That said, I feel like Anna should have got a perception check to notice a mercenary tromping down the hall and stopping outside the wall directly in front of her. If she had noticed such, she should been able to take a total defense or something similar to try and dive for cover.

[Jack_Spade]

The Merc didn't move from his position. He just used his radar system, aced his perception test and shot through the wall with custom APDS.

I'm all for giving her a chance, but you neither sent in a drone first (or at least positioned one on the corridor window), hacked a guncam or used some other form of magic to get positions.
Heck, you didn't even use the fisheye on the door.

That said:
I'll allow her an Edge roll. With a success the spirit in the Astral can send her a warning so that she can take a defense test. (After all it's a kind of guardian angel)

[Volker]

I think it was fair. We had the chance, we messed up, now we suffer the consequences. We're shadowrunners, not toddlers. Bad things happen. Also, bnc's gonna patch her up anyway. Anna's tougher than she looks.

[SquirrelDude]

One last slightly terse thing, and I'll say every time we're in these kind of complex multi-room, multi level environments.

For the love of god, please provide a map.

You could describe it brilliantly, down to the last nail and I won't retain any of it.

[Gilga]

If she is allowed an edge roll I'll take it, would be nicer to participate in the combat than to be idle.


Edge: 3d6t5 1. I guess she takes a defense test?
In that case, she'll use a full defense and suddenly crash herself to the wall or something.
Full defense: 21d6t5 7 - which would put her unharmed if a bit scratched.

[Thanee]

After looking back, I must say, I totally did not see that (although, that is information only bnc really had, anyways). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Your last matrix perception scan detects radar signals.

- The radar signal most likely comes from one of the mercs

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

2. Bad luck Anna's 27 lost to the Merc's 27 on whatever the tiebreaker for initiative is

It is listed in the initiative overview, actually. First tie-breaker is Edge (both have E3) then Reaction (Merc has R8, Anna has R6).

4. Bad planning for Anna to go upstairs in a vulnerable position, isolated from the other members of the team.

Yeah. In the graveyard, there was quite a bit of talk of not seperating too much... and then here, everyone suddenly ran to a different position. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

One last slightly terse thing, and I'll say every time we're in these kind of complex multi-room, multi level environments.

For the love of god, please provide a map.

There was, at least, some overview with the appartement and the corridor.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1342566

I also tried to gather what information I found about locations into the initiative overview, that I posted, because I found it a little hard to follow as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

If she is allowed an edge roll I'll take it, would be nicer to participate in the combat than to be idle.


Edge: 3d6t5 1. I guess she takes a defense test?
In that case, she'll use a full defense and suddenly crash herself to the wall or something.
Full defense: 21d6t5 7 - which would put her unharmed if a bit scratched.

Good roll, though you aren't entirely of the hook:

p. 190 core
"If you attack someone in cover and you tie in the Opposed Test, you hit your target through the cover she’s using. If you penetrate the barrier (see Barriers, p. 197), you can still do damage to your opponent."

So in that case you'll still take the 12 base damage, minus your soak of 7, so you still take 5P

[Gilga]

I robbed myself 1 dice: Intuition 10, Reaction 6, (Lighting reflexes) 1, +5 willpower.
1 extra dice: 1d6t5 0
Not changing...

I'll just edge the dodge test which is much more useful than to spend edge and be seriously wounded.

Edge(reroll): 15d6t5 5

So these are 12 hits for defense, no edge left and no blood.


SR rules are strange - how a tie without cover does no damage - but with a cover it does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It seems like the cover more of a hindrance than a benefit - counter intuitively. (Unless it stops the bullet).

[Thanee]

p. 190 core
"If you attack someone in cover and you tie in the Opposed Test, you hit your target through the cover she’s using. If you penetrate the barrier (see Barriers, p. 197), you can still do damage to your opponent."

That would not apply here, I think. Only, if she is using cover (which provides a bonus to defense tests). But she is not.

Essentially it means, when firing at someone in cover, you either hit (attacker wins test) or not (defender wins test) or hit the barrier, where the defender is standing and can hit him or her through the cover (on a tie).

What you are doing here, though, is attacking through a barrier (p. 197), that is not used for cover. Usually that involves blind fire, but with his radar, he circumvents that part.

Also, I think the damage (which will not apply, but in case it would) would first be resisted by the structure (cheap material has 2 structure and 4 armor; so just the 2 dice, assuming that was 1 hit then?), then applied to the structure (2 DV removed because of the 2 structure), and only then applied to whoever is being targeted (so it would have been 10 DV coming through, I believe).

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

After looking back, I must say, I totally did not see that (although, that is information only bnc really had, anyways). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nope, bnc shared the information with the team.

regarding the barrier/cover:
I just wanted to say the same thing. The rule you quoted basically rules the case in which A fails to hit B because of the protection the cover provides. That doesn't apply if you never tried to shoot at the person behind the cover without shooting through the cover. The rules are clearly not intended to make it more probable to hit someone behind a wall than the same person without the wall. It just adds some realism as you might fail to hit someone directly who stands behind, say, a pillar, but you might accidently hit the pillar and the victim through it.

The damage is correct, however, as a bullet falls under the Penetration Weapons rules, p. 198 CRB.

[Thanee]

Nope, bnc shared the information with the team.

Must have missed that part, then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



Interesting with that Penetration Weapons part. That seems to contradict the Shooting through Barriers, which (obviously) seems to be meant for firearms mostly.

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

Not contradict, it's a different case. Penetration Weapon rules only apply when the modified DV is less than the Armor. So if you shoot with a Savalette Guardian at a wall or fortified glass, the normal Shooting through barriers rules apply. Same goes for fireballs, shuriken or dwarves. This one, however, has APDS ammo which can easily penetrate thin walls - which will be exactly why he brought it in the first place.

[Luckace]

Damn, that escalated quickly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) I'm thrilled!

@ Squirreldude: thanks for rolling Wraith's initiative.

oh, and seeing Wraith's location is marked "?": he's still in the janitor's flat - he simply didn't have the time to leave yet.

[Thanee]

Not contradict, it's a different case. Penetration Weapon rules only apply when the modified DV is less than the Armor. So if you shoot with a Savalette Guardian at a wall or fortified glass, the normal Shooting through barriers rules apply. Same goes for fireballs, shuriken or dwarves. This one, however, has APDS ammo which can easily penetrate thin walls - which will be exactly why he brought it in the first place.

Ahh, I see... thanks!

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

oh, and seeing Wraith's location is marked "?": he's still in the janitor's flat - he simply didn't have the time to leave yet.

Yeah, I wasn't sure, whether you wanted to tag along or something else. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

That would not apply here, I think. Only, if she is using cover (which provides a bonus to defense tests). But she is not.

Essentially it means, when firing at someone in cover, you either hit (attacker wins test) or not (defender wins test) or hit the barrier, where the defender is standing and can hit him or her through the cover (on a tie).

What you are doing here, though, is attacking through a barrier (p. 197), that is not used for cover. Usually that involves blind fire, but with his radar, he circumvents that part.

Also, I think the damage (which will not apply, but in case it would) would first be resisted by the structure (cheap material has 2 structure and 4 armor; so just the 2 dice, assuming that was 1 hit then?), then applied to the structure (2 DV removed because of the 2 structure), and only then applied to whoever is being targeted (so it would have been 10 DV coming through, I believe).

regarding the barrier/cover:
I just wanted to say the same thing. The rule you quoted basically rules the case in which A fails to hit B because of the protection the cover provides. That doesn't apply if you never tried to shoot at the person behind the cover without shooting through the cover. The rules are clearly not intended to make it more probable to hit someone behind a wall than the same person without the wall. It just adds some realism as you might fail to hit someone directly who stands behind, say, a pillar, but you might accidently hit the pillar and the victim through it.

The damage is correct, however, as a bullet falls under the Penetration Weapons rules, p. 198 CRB.

The point is, gilga wrote explicitly that he wanted Anna to take cover behind the door.
I interpreted that as her keeping very close to the door, reducing her range of movement (taking cover is an active action compared to merely standing behind something but not actually touching it.

I didn't roll for the door to resist since the combined damge + AP exceeded the door's resistance dicepool. So I just put it at a flat -1 DV as per the penetration rules.



But in any case, she still lives thanks to the grace of Wraith's guardian angle and you guys are up. (I suggest taking a moment to read through the OOC. You likely missed another important thing that might surprise you at an inopportune moment.

[Gilga]

To be clear, I planned for her to walk to the door, open it and shoot whomever on the other side, possibly retreating back inside for cover/break line of sight. I did not plan for her to stand right by the door. With her kind of agility, it is unnecessary. She can walk the entire apartment in a single combat phase I think. But I did not yet declare the action for the round, because of initiative order and such.

[Thanee]

The point is, gilga wrote explicitly that he wanted Anna to take cover behind the door.

Terminology aside, the situation still isn't "cover" per SR rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But you were very lenient with the chance to defend against the attack, so...

Let's move on... Anna is still up with her action.

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

What meta type are the guards and how strong do they look?

[Jack_Spade]

Hi Jack, do we see the mage, have access to his apartment or do we need to fight the guards?

If Anna can see the mage from a place she can get to without passing wards she'll shoot him. Otherwise, she'll assault the guards, and use the door/wall as cover, possibly breaking LOS with them hoping to get them after her.

I'm referring to that post, which to me suggested you'd rather hug the wall.

But yes, let's move on:

They are both human. The one with the assault shotgun is the smaller of the two but he has more chrome (arms and legs) while the other one now has a one handed blooddrinker axe as well as a funny looking, very large riot shield which he uses to cover the door and his partner.
The cybered guy wear face concealing balistic mask with helmet and pretty heavy looking Ares Victory Big Game Hunter armor. The other just carries the shield and the armor.

(For convenience sake I'll reveal their handles: Assault and Battery)