Salted Wounds [OOC], a Deep Black Sea game Options

[Thanee]

I just don't have any luck here...

On a average roll, I should have had like 4 net hits, not -2. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Can you please use d4s or something in future? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

He was impossible to hit regardless of your roll. Most weapons don't even get an accuracy of 11 (which is the minimum you needed to have in order to hit the bastard).

[Volker]

@Jack

Still 5 surveillance drones outside that you didn't take care off

What could we have done? Although Nova and bnc were specifically looking for surveillance drones, if I remember correctly, we didn't even get a perception roll until it was long too late and Thanee pointed out that we should have got a roll. She then passed but we have already been spotted.

The Spirit has normal senses while materialized, including sight, sound and smell, including Enhanced Senses (Low-Light, Thermographic Vision)

Does it? Why? CRB 301 states "When materialized, the spirit uses astral perception (its only perception) to perceive the physical world." To me, that sounds pretty much like a very explicit declaration that spirits do not have these senses (except, of course, if they have Enhanced Senses, which I didn't know as I have no clue what kind of spirit they are). So I'm nut sure about hearing, as this apparently is kind of part of astral perception, but it definitely doesn't have physical sight or smell. If they explicitly have low-light and thermographic, they'd count as sight, and would still be influenced by the chameleon suit. You could, of course, argue that there's a sense of adoration on it, but explicitly not an aura as well.

But I get the general gist: We didn't stumple upon an unprepared wageslave but deal with very well-prepared professionals with good gear who are not easily ambushed as they took precaution, and accept and appreciate that I underestimated the level of professionality we are dealing with. Maybe because we are lacking it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

8 bnc (jumped into James) -- inside the kitchen appartment (bnc is in the van): Shoots at Mage
15 Mage (inside flat - acts after bnc, since she is the triggering event for his initiative ): Shoots Lightning at bnc
7 (E3R8) Assault (unarmed) -- in front of appartment: Uses spurs on Sharkboy
4 (E7) Nova -- in the staircase:
4 Anna's Spirit -- outside corridor:
2 (E3) Anna -- in corridor:
2 Aeraziel (Wraith's Spirit) -- in astral space:
2 Aeraziel (Wraith's Spirit) -- in astral space:
*Guardian Spirit -- inside appartment: Too surprised to do anything in this round

I might be mistaken again, and damn, I know I'm being a pain in the ass, and I'm really sorry for it, but the mage's initiative should be 6 not 15.
He rolled 36. -10 from full defense is 26.
When he entered the fight, we were already in the 3^rd pass, so he missed two, not one initiative pass, which makes it 6.

Defense rolls
Uhm. I cannot use Full Defense now, can I? Fuck, I'm dead. I somehow that that was already the first action of the new round. I hate Shadowrun rules -.-
Defense rolls: 10d6t5 4
I have to use Edge, or I'm dead as bones: Edge: 6d6t5 3
I barely evade the spell.

3 points of edge spent

@gilga

First action: Data spike the guns.
Second action: break and enter
Third action: shoot

[Thanee]

He was impossible to hit regardless of your roll. Most weapons don't even get an accuracy of 11 (which is the minimum you needed to have in order to hit the bastard).

My Accuracy is 14. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

Dude xD how?? wotcha.


Uh, and by the way, fellas: I don't know if any of your chars has attention to spare, but if they do: bnc's cam feed is, of course, in the group channel. But considering they are focussed on the fight and cannot follow 4 cam feeds at once, that might be of no practical value. Still, especially Wraith (who's not in the battle and will more likely be focussed on giant sword wielding brutish monster spirits) might notice.

[Jack_Spade]

@Volker
The surveillance drones could have been spotted if your matrix perception check would have been better. Noting things the size of insects in a dark, snowy light poluted city, who are also affected by concealment weren't something I'd actively reveal to you unless you are going to look for them.
Believe me, I do want to make this fair (which is why I explicitly pointed out the relevant modifiers for Sharkboy), but at some point it is you all who have to step up your game if you don't want to deal with situations like that.
Me having to explain again and again why I do what I do is really tiresome. If you want to haggle about modifiers, expect in future that I will use them all - including the suggestions about noise and background count.


@Spirits: The important thing is that their stat block contains the perception skill in addition to their assensing. I can't imagine them being completely deaf. That would make communication with them impossible (which is important since they can be made to obey the commands of a mundane). Neither could they feel pain, heat or even their own bodies.
In short, that "no perception except assensing" is not feasible in play.

As for the impressions:
"Objects that are neither magical nor living do not have an aura; they are featureless grey shadows of their physical form. They can, however, pick up impressions for a limited time from being in contact with living auras. A teddy bear in the Barrens might pick up a child’s fear, a wedding ring its owner’s sense of love and joy, or a murder weapon an aura of rage. These impressions are vague and fleeting, but you don’t need to assense the object to get them."

By the rules the mage would have a second pass, but fear not, I won't have him act again in this round as it's all confusing enough as it is.

Also it seems as if you managed to draw even on your defense test against an electric attack - which means you still get to deal with 10 P(e) AP-10 damage to soak, as well as half that amount of Matrix damage


@gilga

Your spirit isn't materialized, so it's not important which attributes it uses, since it's always force x2.
If you want to bash the barrier in with astral combat you need to contend with an opposed roll of Fx2=20 dice and you need to do 10 damage within one round in astral combat to create an opening.
If you want to press through it's charisma + magic vs. Barrier Force x2
Resist: 20d6t5 9, so your bashing with astral combat would have done 2 damage - 8 to go till the end of the round when the barrier again gains full health


Battery resists
Resist: 12d6t5 5
No Levitation (Resistance tests are never affected by wound penalties)

[Gilga]

What an underwhelming experience this combat (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

what happens if we walk into the barrier with a high force spell? can the spell take down the barrier?

[Jack_Spade]

Ini twos are now on point

In Preparation of the new Round:

Mage: Ini 2: 16+4d6 34
Guardian Spirit (in Flat): Ini 2: 15+2d6 23
Bound Spirit (Astral): Ini 2: 14+3d6 21
Assault: Ini 2: 16+3d6 26
Battery: Ini 2: 14+4d6 29 (His Kamikaze just kicked in, lowering his wound mods to 1)

@gilga

You can force an intersection Spell Force x2 vs. Barrier Force x2. Winner survives, other gets disspelled (Barrier will still go up again the next round)

[Thanee]

Battery is just blessed by the gods of luck... he constantly rolls above average.

I think he had like one bad roll so far, which was against another bad roll, so sufficient. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Anyways, making my Toxin Resistance roll (which, surprisingly, went well (at least the first part)).

Toxin Resistance 9 hits + Edge 0 hits

I am really starting to wonder, what my Edge is even good for ... every time I used it so far it was a bad (re-)roll, every single time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

To be fair, he hasn't really done anything beyond defending, throwing a grenade and being battered right and left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Just means his concept works. If you hadn't disarmed Assault so quickly this would have gone a bit different by now.

[Gilga]

I am starting to question if we actually get out of this alive. Battery only took damage because he made a tactical mistake of using astral perception. He took 3 sniper rifle shots, for a whopping 3 stun. Is the shield march still effective, or is being clinched by the Shark nullify the routine?

By the way, is the grenade still pouring out gas? (e.g. can I fling it ?)

[Volker]

@Jack

I know it's tiresome and I really apologize. I also don't want to haggle just point out. Your understanding and knowledge of rules is far superior to mine (and, I believe, everyone's in this group), but you do mistakes as well, and have made several before. I want at least to try and point out if I think you have missed something. For example, I did look out specifically for surveillance drone both in the matrix and in the real world, and I didn't even get a roll [if I'm mistaken, I might have missed it]. Afterwards, you said it was our fault we didn't take them out before. Also there was the surprise test, the wrong calculation of my dice pool, Nova's missing perception test.
Often, rules aren't very clear or contradictive. If I can see that what's going on obviously contradicts rules (and I rely on them), I hope you understand that I will point them out. If the CRB definitely states that they have no matrix perception, and I rely in my sneaking on that fact, that is an issue (especially as bnc is not a tough fighter and is now in a very dangerous situation).

spirits: I'd agree that sounds is part of astral perception. I think that in the description it specifically says that astrally projecting magicians can hear sounds. Sight is a different matter (except, of course, it's a spirit power, which seems to be the case).

Impression: I agreed that it's got this touch in my post. I just stated that it's not an aura, and also not as bright and brilliant.

Mage: I don't understand why he would get a second pass. There's no such rule as "-10 for being late to combat". I assume that you derive this from CRB 193 where it says in the example "Bodyguard B couldn’t roll because of the critical glitch but the gamemaster thinks he could pop in later so he rolls for him anyway with both the –10 penalty for failing the Surprise Test and an additional –10 penalty for joining the Combat Turn after the first Initiative Pass (19 – 10 – 10 = –1)." But the -10 are because one pass is already over, so everyone (including those inactive) get -10. In this case, that happened twice, so the mage would be down to 6.
But again, I'm also getting tired of it. I will just accept that we play with this "-10 for being late" rule.

Lightning bolt: Same here. I can see no reason at all why the Grazing Hit rules would apply to a lightning bolt. It clearly says "touch-only" spells and that indirect spells need to win the Opposed test. In my opinion, it's a bit absurd that this rule would apply to a lightning bolt but not to a stunbolt or acid stream or whatever other indirect combat spells you have.

But if that's how you treat all electricity attacks, including lightning bolts, there you go:
Soak: 7d6t5 2
8 boxes of physical for James, 8 boxes of physical for bnc, 4 boxes of matrix damage for the deck (amounting to a total of 9).


I do agree, however, that we have to prepare better, work more as a team and altogether more professional.

@gilga now you should be able to fling it as the trigger has already been activated. But I don't think it would be of any use as the gas has already streamed out and will linger for another 3 combat rounds.

[Gilga]

@Jack
Also it seems as if you managed to draw even on your defense test against an electric attack - which means you still get to deal with 10 P(e) AP-10 damage to soak, as well as half that amount of Matrix damage

So in our game, would lighting bolts be easier to hit with than firebolts/ice-bolts and the other elements?
Or would all indirect combat spells hit on a tie. I was under the impression that tie is a miss - but when I read core it did not say what happens on a tie.

@Volker, I think that bnc and the deck get their own damage resistance. Even if you are hit.

and by the way Jack/Volker. bnc does get to use full defense even after her turn:

4. DECLARE & RESOLvE ACTIONS OF REMAINING CHARACTERS (core rules page 159, that describes combat - bold part is my addition.)

Once the character with the highest Initiative Score has acted, move on to the character with the next highest Initiative Score and repeat Step 3 until all characters have acted in the Initiative Pass. Once all characters have acted, subtract 10 from all characters’ Initiative Scores and return to step 2 for all characters with an Initiative Score greater than 0. If a character was wounded previously, wound modifiers may affect his Initiative Score on this and any subsequent Combat Turns. Once all characters have an Initiative Score of 0 or less, move to Step 5
===========

My take on it, resolving bnc's actions does not lower her initiative - the end of the phase does. So when the mage strikes her with lighting - she CAN go full defense without a hitch (she has initiative 8, and can therefore use full defense).
The thing you said you dislike when you get a benefit for being SLOWER - is a wrong interpretation of combat sequence in my opinion. As you subtract initiative by 10 after the player acts, and not at the end of the phase.

If you already acted, you would not lose the action but if you are slower to act, that full defense may eliminate your ability to act. So being faster is always better than being slower.

[Volker]

That's a very interesting point. I still wouldn't be able to do full defense as this would mean -10 where I only have 8 left, but I could do Dodge or something.

@Jack:
If I use Dodge in a drone, do I use the Piloting skill or still Gymnastics?

Also: I believe you if you say for some reason that doesn't apply or already has been applied without further questioning but in case you have forgotten it: bnc is behind the wall with only the smartgun and a part of her head peeping through a small gap in the door. Thus I should get 4 bonus dice, would I not?

@gilge
Also thinks for pointing out I still do get resistance tests. I didn't realize.

[Gilga]

You can go any interrupt as long as you have a positive initiative. No problem in being in negatives afterward.

[Luckace]

Initiative Wraith: 9+1d6 13

Initiative Undiel: 14+2d6 18

Initiative Aeraziel: 16+2d6 25

[SquirrelDude]

You can go any interrupt as long as you have a positive initiative. No problem in being in negatives afterward.

Definitely one of the oddities of the system, but that's how we've been playing it for a while now. We've had enemies at 7 use full defense, and I used -10 interrupts to throw people at 4 initiative back at the bmw museum

[Volker]

You can go any interrupt as long as you have a positive initiative. No problem in being in negatives afterward.

you sure?

When a character uses an Interrupt
Action, such as Full Defense, he takes an action out
of turn, but only if he has enough Initiative Score left
in the Combat Turn to pay the price for the action."

To me, that sounds that you have to be able to pay the full price, i.e. 10 points.

In Full defense, it explicitly says:

Characters
may only go on Full Defense if they have enough Initiative
Score left in that Combat Turn.

[Gilga]

Well I don't know I thouht we played it like that. It seems strang that if you do not optimize for combat you cannot full defense but this is what the qoutes you bring say.

[Jack_Spade]

@Interrupts
I'd allow going full defense as your last action - provided you adjust your next round ini by the missing amount

@Mistakes
No question, I do make mistakes and I'm always up for correction. What I'm referring to was that "unfair because some modifications are used and others not"

@Electric attacks

I already quoted the exact rules for this

"A wide variety of nonlethal weapons are designed to incapacitate targets with electrical shock attacks, including stun batons, tasers, cyberware shock hands, and similar electrically charged weapons. These weapons rely on a contact discharge of electricity rather than kinetic energy."

"If the result of the Opposed Test is a tie, the attack is considered a grazing hit. A grazing hit does not do any damage, but the attacker makes contact."

Electricity hurts when it makes contact. This is it's specialty and one of the reasons it's superior to the other elemental damage types.

@late to the combat
I'm not sure what you are arguing about: He is getting only one action and it's after bnc gets her action

[Volker]

@Interrupts

So, I'd make full defense but start my next ini with -2 modifier? That sounds pretty fair to me.
Full Defense: 5d6t5 2
With that, it misses. Thanks to both gilga, for pointing that possibility, and Jack for allowing me the roll.

@Mistakes

You're right, that was unfair. I apologize.

@Electric attacks

To me this is pretty specific for electronic weapons (the word is used 3 times within 2 sentences). The fact that it gives three specific examples and all of them are non-magical (different to where the electricity damage is described, where the spell lightning bolt is one of the examples), is a dead giveaway for me that this is not meant to be applied to spells or critter powers.
But again, your house, your rules, and if I know I can deal with it.

@late for combat

urm, pretty much a matter of principal, I guess.

[Thanee]

To be fair, he hasn't really done anything beyond defending, throwing a grenade and being battered right and left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Just means his concept works.

Certainly, but he undeniably has his fair shair of luck going with it. On average, he should be down by now.

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

Nova's Initiative 22

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

Round 2:

Mage: 34
Battery: 29 (His Kamikaze just kicked in, lowering his wound mods to 1)
Assault: 26
Aeraziel Spirit Team 25
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (in Flat): 23
Nova: 22
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 21
Undiel Spirit Team: 18
Wraith: 13
Anna: ?
Anna's Spirit: ?
Sharkboy: ?
bnc: ?

[SquirrelDude]

Initiative Rd 2: 3d6+11 20