Salted Wounds [OOC], a Deep Black Sea game Options

[Gilga]

Jack, you did not answer me about the spell:

Does breaking LOS means that the spell fails - or can Anna levitate Assault again in her next action when she restablishes line of sight.

[Jack_Spade]

This is a specialty of Levitate:

The subject of the spell can be moved any-
where in your line of sight at a movement rate equal to
the spell’s Force in meters per Combat Turn.

Once you no longer see them, you can't move them - including keeping them in place - at least that's how I interprete the line. Otherwise no, you don't need to keep seeing your target after you cast a spell.

As I wrote: I interprete that to mean you have to keep an eye on your target otherwise you no longer can assert force on them to move or keep them in place (levitation is just applying force counter to gravity after all)
If you reestablish line of sight you can hover him again, but he gets another chance to resist (trying to grab something solid and break the spell)

[Gilga]

Well, technically it says that I can move the object anywhere in my line of sight, but it does not say that the object needs to be on itself in my line of sight. That said, I don't mind it being like that, whatever works. Whose turn is it anyhow?

[Jack_Spade]

bnc 21
Anna's Spirit: 18
Mage 17
Guardian Spirit 15
Nova 11 (interrupt)
Anna 9 (interrupt)
Sharkboy 9 (interrupt)
Bound Guardian Spirit 13
Aeraziel 13
Assault 12
Wraith 6

[Volker]

Phase 21:
Movement: Move to the drone, then to the van. I don't know whether jumping is part of the movement or it requires a Free Action. I didn't find anything specific about it. Either way, it'll be no problem.
Simple Action: Pick up drone.
Simple Action: Open door.

bnc 21 (pick up drone and leap into the van)
Anna's Spirit: 18
Mage 17
Guardian Spirit 15
Nova 11 (interrupt)
Anna 9 (interrupt)
Sharkboy 9 (interrupt)
Bound Guardian Spirit 13
Aeraziel 13
Assault 12
Wraith 6

[Gilga]

Anna's spirit will delay its action, and follow the mage in the astral.
Or if it cannot follow the mage and delay action it will assense him.
Assensing: 12d6t5 4

It is tasked with keeping the mage occupied but has no significant meat space fighting capabilities which is why I think it should behave like that.

[Jack_Spade]

There's nothing to follow right now since the mage left the room without being dual natured and your spirit does not have line of effect for assensing.
I'll count your throw as a search check though:

Stealth: 16d6t5 6

The mage performs his action unobserved.

Guardian Spirit declares magical guard with its free action and uses Fear on Anna's spirit

Fear: 14d6t5 10
Anna's spirit Fear Resist: 12d6t5 3
Do you want to use Edge on your Spirit's behalf?

The Bound Guardian Spirit will do likewise against Aeraziel or Wraith, depending on which of them is currently at the scene
Fear: 14d6t5 5

[Luckace]

Well, both are currently in astral space, attempting to zero in on the mage. So depending on the hostile spirit's position and whether it succeeds at establishing LOS to Wraith and Aeraziel, I guess both are "at the scene".

I'll leave it to you to decide/roll whom the spirit tries to attack.

Resist Fear (Wraith): 9d6t5 3
Resist fear (Aeraziel): 12d6t5 5

[Jack_Spade]

1 Wraith 2 Aeraziel: 1d2 2

Aeraziel gets targeted and saves.

[Gilga]

There's nothing to follow right now since the mage left the room without being dual natured and your spirit does not have line of effect for assensing.
I'll count your throw as a search check though:

Stealth: 16d6t5 6

The mage performs his action unobserved.

Guardian Spirit declares magical guard with its free action and uses Fear on Anna's spirit

Fear: 14d6t5 10
Anna's spirit Fear Resist: 12d6t5 3
Do you want to use Edge on your Spirit's behalf?

The Bound Guardian Spirit will do likewise against Aeraziel or Wraith, depending on which of them is currently at the scene
Fear: 14d6t5 5

Wraith is I believe.


Now, rolling for the spirit to find the mage is strange(no offense intended), Wraith is not there so he has to look for the mage fine. Anna's spirit was with the mage - and moved after him when her turn arrived. She did nothing else since the mage disengaged, and basically never let the mage leave her sight, she does not go and look for him - she hovers in the astral above him - (but we give orders in phases - so what do you expect me to do?).
I think it is unreasonable that she cannot simply accompany the mage as it was instructed. She was not instructed to fight spirits - and all of its attention is on the mage. He should not just vanish by walking to another room. (she is there with him as he walks, and is likely to be much faster than him).

...and I don't have any edge left - so the spirit is out of the combat one way or the other. Not that it would have done me any good with 10(!!!) hits.

[Jack_Spade]

Your spirit was in the middle of combat with two spirits. Just as your spirit would be free to move those two can move in front of it and stop the pursuit. (Which as now demonstrated they do)
The mage does have a rather high movement speed (not unlike Anna) and can break LOS easily.
There are no automatic successes in a combat like that.

[Gilga]

Fine, but for the record, the mage's spirits did not behave like that, they retreated/stayed inside their protective mana barrier (you said so yourself). So nothing blocks Anna's spirit from moving - if any they encouraged her to leave with the fear power. It still feels like the mage should not have gained a single meter over the spirit. One spirit attacked a barrier that enveloped their barrier - not even getting close to Anna's spirit. The other used the fear power -(and failed) - since it ended inside the bubble, I assume it stayed within the mana sphere. Then when Anna's spirit turn arrives both spirits are within their barriers, so who blocks the mages retreat and why would a spirit that was tasked with keeping the mage occupied not be able to just walk along with the mage unmolested until the spirits dash at her again from their protective barrier. I mean the mage moves, nobody tries to cover for the mage's retreat the spirit is not engaged in astral combat, and the other spirits are chilling inside their protective barrier. Why wouldn't Anna's spirit at least follow the mage to lure them out of the barrier and fulfill it takes, this was the point of the delayed action.

If you want them to block Anna's spirit - to the very least place them in the way and not inside their bubble. I think you are overly harsh here, I would not consider being able to 'vanish' in the middle of a combat with none of my characters. Maybe if nobody follows me I'd expect but in this case, you do not even let her the chance to follow - and she was not even engaged in combat - she resisted a spell like an effect, and had its mana barrier shatter - nobody approached Anna's spirit. The spirit has a narrowminded focus on the mage, which is why it would follow the mage and not let it get away to begin with.
I am not arguing about the outcome, I don't mind the spirit losing the match (I am surprised it is still with us considering the opponent is superior to it within every single factor.) - but if the mage should not be able to disappear without someone attempting to block the spirits way - you enjoy the best of two worlds by keeping the spirits in the bubble and the mage going puff without a possibility of keeping up with him. I mean, there are many ways to accomplish it, he could, for example, cast a mana barrier behind him to force Anna's spirit to go around the barrier - or have the spirits engaging Anna's spirit or blocking her path to the mage.

The mage did not cast a mana barrier, the spirits stayed within their bubble and yet even given these circumstances my spirit cannot follow the (still slower) mage. so no objection about the outcome, but common - at least provide some IC excuse or let it sense the mage. Because this feels completely arbitrary.

[Luckace]

Wraith's first simple action would be recklessly casting Detect Enemies Extended.
F1 Detect Enemies Extended: 14d6t5 7
Revealing enemies within 60m radius.

Yeah, I, um... might have forgotten that I had that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

resist drain without prayer: 11d6t5 3
One damage taken

His second simple action,however, will highly depend on what results his spell brings.
@Jack: Would you tell me what I see/don't see, so I can resolve my next simpe action accordingly?

My further ideas are then either calling another spirit to aid Aeraziel against the mage, or recklessly attacking whatever targets I can find (the spirits, most likely). Can a command from the mage simply "override" an Influence-spell against the spirits? And does the telepathic connection he has to his spirits tell him the exact nature of my spell?
So e.g. let's say I cast an Influence on the spirit and tell it to "Whatever your master tells you to do, do against him", would the mage
a) ...know that I cast this specific "idea" and be able to counterplan accordingly?
b)...be able to just command "Nah, ignore that guy." and negate everything I tell the spirit with a simple action?

[Jack_Spade]

@gilga
Simply put, your spirit is in a chaotic situation where his los of the mage was blocked by a powerful barrier, to which it reacted by errecting and maintaining two barriers of its own, losing one of them to intersection, followed by facing the two guardian spirits who attacked the remaining barrier and the spirit itself. While that was going on, the mage left the astral and moved out of line of sight. The assensing test vs. the mage's ability to move undetected showed that your spirit did not track his movements accurately enough to know in which direction to look - especially since there still is a big sphere of mana barrier blocking it's way with two guardian spirits ready to intercept. I would have discribed the Guardian spirits actions differently if I had infered that your spirit suddenly drops his aggressive stance and wants to go after the mage again.

@Luckace

One of the other spirits uses spell defense to counter your spell: Spell Defense: 7d6t5 2

The layout is similar to the flats downstairs

As for Influence: The mage would know that you are casting due to the spirit's watching you, but he wouldn't know the exact nature of your spell. Still, as soon as the hypnotic command is planted, the spirit would get a resistance roll due to the conflicting nature of those commands with those given by its master. Not to mention the second spirit's counterspell ability.

[Jack_Spade]

Resist Levitation: 14d6t5 5

Seems like he will be still stuck once, Anna reestablishes LoS.

but for the moment he has to soak the drop to the ground

Soak: 32d6t5 10

Takes no damage from the fall.

Defense test against the falling debris (Threshold 3)Defense: 15d6t5 4
He doesn't get trapped beneath a falling piece of scaffolding

Simple action, get up, run as far away as he can (36m) towards the opposite direction of the team's van. Simple action, activate an IR-Smoke grenade

[Gilga]

Fine, (and it is only aggressive toward the mage) it kind of ignores the spirits as a distraction. Spirit is out of the game for now.

[Gilga]

bnc 21 (pick up drone and leap into the van)
Anna's Spirit: 18
Mage 17 (gone)
Guardian Spirit 15 fear Anna's spiirt
Bound Guardian Spirit 13 Fear Aeraziel
Assault 12 runs (smoke grenade)
Nova 11 (interrupt)
Sharkboy 9 (interrupt)
Anna 9 (interrupt)
Wraith 6


Next are Nova and Sharkboy.

Anna's action levitate - what kind of action is it? Can she also do something else?

[Jack_Spade]

Yes, you have a full complex action since you are just sustaining the spell. You could follow the Merc into the smoke to reestablish line of sight with a sprint action for example. Or if you have some way to dispers the smoke (like an area effect spell)

[Gilga]

How far is the smoke? Would another levitate suffice for line of sight?

[Thanee]

Nova delays after Anna for now.

If she cannot catch him with another spell, it is pretty much pointless to follow him, anyways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Assault is still visible in the smoke, it does not completely break line of sight, right? Why would Anna need to get into the smoke to re-establish line of sight?

Also, couldn't she just switch to Astral Perception to see through the smoke and clearly see him?

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

Few additional questions: Anna would like to find some way to disable assault so we can ask questions.

1. Line of sight through smoke will not work?
2. Will levitating Anna higher establish?
3. Will using magic fingers to toss the grenade aside solve the problem?

[Thanee]

If the smoke blocking line of sight is the issue, I think Astral Perception is enough to establish that.

You could also try summoning a spirit with Influence and ideally Movement as well, just to be fast, to make him come back and surrender (you would have to release your currently summoned spirit, of course). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Luckace]

Thanks for the clarification about influence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Right, guardian spirits have counterspelling. This impacts Wraith's second simple action, of course. As the spirit's spell defense is used up, he will recklessly cast a second Detect Enemies Extended:
F2 Detect enemies extended: 14d6t5 3
Resist drain without prayer: 11d6t5 3
Another 2 damage taken.


@Jack: I wasn't aware that the spirit could protect the mage in this case, as CB p.294 states that spell defense "is used against hostile spells cast at you or at targets that are within your line of sight" - which the mage certainly is not.
So basically, with spell defense you allow dispelling the spell at its core (the caster) instead of protecting individual targets? Does this go for all area of effect spells without having LOS to each individual target?

[Gilga]

Luckace - I am not that the mage is an 'enemy' - he seems to want to GTFO rather than fight a bunch of runners and risk his life.

[Jack_Spade]

@gilga and Thanee

That's actually covered in core p. 361

"When force is not adequate (or available), limiting
visibility can be just as effective. Magic is (almost) en-
tirely dependent on what the magician can see. If a ma-
gician can’t see something, they can’t cast a spell against
it. Anything a security force does to limit a magician’s
ability to see them will inhibit their ability to use mag-
ic against them. Security forces can limit visibility in a
variety of ways: cover, flash bangs, smoke, or changing
lighting conditions."

Astral perception is not sufficient to get a lock on your target

p.174 core

Whether it’s natural rain, fog, smoke from natural sources, or
smoke screen of some type thrown up for cover, they
all block line of sight.


Getting to higher ground doesn't do much good, since it's a 10m cloud in any direction.
Magic fingers won't work since the grenade is also not visible being inside the cloud (and also still on the merc's belt)

As I said: You can establish contact with the Merc directly since touch range will be enough to reestablish your connection, or you can think of something else to get rid of the smoke (a grenade for example would disperse it)

@Luckace

You do realize that there are two Guardian spirits?

As for your question: You are using an active detection spell that let's your targets resist anyway. Both spirits are within the effect of the spell and the spell description explicitly mentions that you can use counterspelling against it.
"Active detection spells involve an Opposed
Test between the caster’s Spellcasting + Magic [Force]
and either Willpower + Logic (+ Counterspelling if avail-
able) [Mental] for living things with auras, (Force x 2) for
magical objects, or the object resistance for mundane
objects (p. 295). Counterspelling may be used to defend
against active detection spells, even if the target is un-
aware of them being cast (for example, if they walk with-
in range of an active Detect Enemies spell)." p.284 core

And yes, spell defense always acts against the spell caster, reducing their net successes.

"When a spell is cast, you may choose to use some or all of your
Counterspelling dice to defend against an incoming
spell. Against each spell attack, you have to choose
how many dice from this pool to allocate for defense,
and you can select how many people (including your-
self if you desire) are covered by these defensive dice.
You can protect a number of people at one time equal
to your Magic Rating."

So, don't wonder that your second attempt is also blocked by the other spirit

counter spell: 7d6t5 2
Mage Resist: 10d6t5 2

You can feel the merc and the two spirits, but not the mage.