2E Followers, Does it ever go well? Options

[tisoz]

I created a 2E Face/Jack of all Trades and took Followers (Gangs, too, but that's another issue.) Shortly into the first run, pretty much everyone else (ok, everyone else, unless the ones who were ok with it just let the others have their way) protested their PC would be overshadowed. So I redid my PC and dropped the Followers (and gang.) (Oddly, by freeing up the nuyen I took some cyber/bio that made him pretty sweet, so I'm happy.)

One thing I tried to do to help this GM and group was, after rolling the worst outcome to determine how many Followers were available, choosing the Bodyguard archetype as one of them to aid us. I figured we were doing a body guarding run, so the GM could use this NPC to keep us from doing anything obviously (to the GM) stupid, and we could ask this NPC for advice to do the job better. It was shortly after this the entire Follower/Gangs issue came up and I changed my PC around to eliminate them.

Back when 2E was the most current edition, I created a PC with Followers and the GM pretty much just killed them out of hand. By "out of hand" I mean without even rolling dice or roleplaying - just, "Oops, that one's dead." I realize this was unfair, but I guess the GM didn't want to deal with it in other ways.

I may have tried Followers one more time, but I don't think they ever really came into play.

I am wondering if Followers (and to a degree Gangs/Tribes) work out? How about some suggestions for using them without taking too much spotlight.

They cost (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 200K, so it's not like they shouldn't come into play. By comparison, the Faces Cultured Tailored Pheromones are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 20K less @ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 180K. The point being, something costing so much is usually a significant part of any character. Plus, all their gear needs to be supplied by the main PC.

[Lionesque]

We never had any followers at my table, so I couldn't say whether followers can or can't work. However, in CyberPunk (Red), characters of the 'Nomad' archetype apparently have so strong ties to the clan that the clan will pretty soon come to dominate the narrative of the game, and I wonder if that's what's either going on, or feared by the other players, in your game? I.e. that they lose agency in terms of the overall narrative, and become bit players on a stage set by your followers? I know I wouldn't enjoy that in a campaign. For a one-off it might be all right, but knowing that your character is consigned to the sidelines forever isn't any fun in my book.

[Blade]

I don't know about the Followers rules in SR2, but generally speaking a Shadowrunner is supposed to be a few tiers above the average ganger. So I wouldn't worry about followers overshadowing the other PCs. The gangers won't be able to infiltrate the secure corporate complex the way your team does, but they can run a diversion.

I've played and GMed in a few 4ed game with characters who had "group contacts" such as a gang or an initiation circle. They could provide some help from time to time, they opened some narrative opportunities but I don't remember them overshadowing the other PCs.

I guess it could be problematic if they were always there. It's harder to get the spotlight when one member of the team is 40 gang members, but if they're treated as secondary characters who appear from time to time to provide something, I don't see anything wrong with that.

[tisoz]

I don't know about the Followers rules in SR2, but generally speaking a Shadowrunner is supposed to be a few tiers above the average ganger. So I wouldn't worry about followers overshadowing the other PCs. The gangers won't be able to infiltrate the secure corporate complex the way your team does, but they can run a diversion.

I've played and GMed in a few 4ed game with characters who had "group contacts" such as a gang or an initiation circle. They could provide some help from time to time, they opened some narrative opportunities but I don't remember them overshadowing the other PCs.

I guess it could be problematic if they were always there. It's harder to get the spotlight when one member of the team is 40 gang members, but if they're treated as secondary characters who appear from time to time to provide something, I don't see anything wrong with that.

How Followers Work In SRII
The Player chooses 5 different archetypes (if they were all the same, they'd be a Gang (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). 1D6+1 are available, they will do anything for the PC including dying for the PC. The PC provides their gear.

How Gangs/Tribes Work In SRII
2D6 are available in 1D6 x 10 minutes. Skill and Attribute ratings of 3. PC is a member or has close ties to them.
There is nothing saying the Player cannot purchase more then one gang, but if they were the same type Gang, I'd assume conflict is inevitable. Having different types of Gangs may alleviate this issue, such as purchasing a Go Gang, a Matrix Gang and/or a Wiz Gang (an idea for being part of a magical group instead of paying the 3 Karma to join a Magical Group.)

The point where my gang reduced others to bit players was when I proposed we set up an ambush involving me calling my Go Gang (based on the Rigger archetype) and I rolled a 10 for how many would be available (the best roll for this EVER.) That meant 20 LMG equipped drones and 10 Euro Westwinds with LMGs and missile launchers as well as surveillance drones could be involved in the ambush. I understood this should be overwhelming force, but we sort of got railroaded into having a Bounty put on us (how they knew we were even involved was very unclear as it happened like moments after we had even gotten involved, so I was being a bit of a dick in return by proposing we have someone rat us out (perhaps a follower or gang member so we collect the bounty for information) and we ambush the people paying the bounty, which in turn I figured were the people responsible for our client needing bodyguards to begin with. This was the Mercurial adventure so it was 'ruining' the story, but it made lots of sense to my PC who was really angry there was a bounty on us after leaving the nightclub and just starting to call contacts, literally moments after becoming involved. The party didn't even know one another, but somehow the 'bad guys' already knew who we were and had alerted our contacts of the bounty.

The only objection to the Followers being involved seemed to be who was paying them, which I explained I would as they would literally do anything for me. The other time I had followers, we left a person in their care and as we went into danger were told the person and Followers left to protect the person were dead (the no roll, no nothing time.)

[Iduno]

I think it's similar to the Rigger Problem and the Pet Class Problem. They're either functionally useless, or way too good.

[Kren Cooper]

I'd not come across "Followers" before in a SR framework, more normally find it in something like D&D or a more fantasy based system - but I can see how it would work. Certainly in SR3, I wouldn't consider it remiss for someone to take a gang as a level 1/2/3 contact, or something like "Everett Mafia - Sorenzo Family" or "Triad gang - Red Dragons".

I think it is something that needs to be carefully handled, as much in the expectations that are set and the impact on the game. I find it very easy to imagine the presence of a gang/followers to be a difficult thing for some GMs to handle or to account for, and for them to quickly grow and be seen as a crutch or Deus Ex Machina for the runs. Likewise, if you're playing something like a street sam, I could imagine being annoyed if someone kept trotting out their personal private army of minions all armed with SMGs and basic body armour to just steamroller the opposition and stamp all over "my" speciality.

If I was the GM, I'd want to sit down session 0 with the player in particular, and probably the whole team, and set some guidelines / expectations, and explain how I'd see them working. Things like - ok, you *have* these people, and they will come to help you, but they're living breathing characters with lives of their own, and while they are loyal, they're maybe not dedicated. So, when you call, I'm going to roll on this chart here... on a 1, they're going to turned up high as kites on whatever street drug they've managed to score, and will act accordingly. On a 2, they're drunk to a greater or lesser extent. On a 3, they're coming back from Little Tommy's funeral, and hopping mad, looking for revenge - consider your gang to be likely to act as if they had the "combat monster" or "vindictive" flaws for the next day.... etc etc. It wouldn't be all bad - on a 6 they've done some good stuff, and they all have a reroll, or +1 professional rating, or come up with some cunning plan - but I'd make it clear that they are your buddies, but under my control - and that stuff happens to them regardless of what you are doing or how inconvenient it might be to your plans. And that includes them sometimes calling you because they absolutely screwed the pooch, got themselves arrested and you need to go post bail to Lone Star to get them out of trouble. They're not a "get out of jail free" card, they can sometimes be a "let's solve this problem by phoning a friend" and at times they'll be "oh great, a side quest dumped on me by my idiot followers..."
I'd look to try and make them interesting, somewhat random, and use them as a vehicle to drive the plot and game forward - and that sometimes means not always to the characters advantage! (Note I say character - they can totally dick over the characters aims and objectives, but it should always try to add fun and interest for the player - even if it's only all the other players laughing as you double face palm as your follower does something dumb again...)

As a player, I'd try and make sure I was meeting my GM half way, with some kind of backstory for the followers, a roster of NPCs and some brief details of what they do, some sample history and background on their characteristics - all fairly loose so I don't lock things down too much, and leave room for the GM to be creative and to manipulate them to allow flexibility. But if I can provide details of a whole bunch of these NPCs, it gives so many hooks for the GM to run with. When I see Jimmy manning the machine gun that's been welded onto the back of Big Ron's pickup truck as they come sliding round the corner to rescue us from our situation, I know to be terrified and start screaming at the other characters - because I remember writing that Jimmy was the one who fell off his skateboard when he was a kid and popped an eye out, and his folks couldn't afford a cyber-replacement... all he got was a glass eye. And Jimmy has NO DEPTH PERCEPTION as a result, so that suppressive fire could go ANYWHERE!

That's the kind of thing I'd try and do anyway - to make them an interesting part of the game, but without being overwhelming to anyone. YMMV of course.