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> Magic Missile?
pbangarth
post Sep 4 2022, 04:56 PM
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I ask for forgiveness in advance for this bit of silliness, especially if this question has been asked before.

A magic weapon ceases to function magically when it leaves contact with the one to whom it is bonded.

An artificial hand is considered part of the individual who has paid Essence for it. Therefore a magic weapon wielded by the owner, using that hand, does not lose its magic.

If that artificial hand were detachable, and hurled at an opponent while clutching a magic weapon, would that weapon be considered to be still touching the person to whom it is bonded?

*ducks*
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Lionesque
post Sep 6 2022, 12:05 PM
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Emphatically no. As for forgiveness, that's between you and whatever sky goblin you subscribe to, but I wouldn't get my hopes up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Bodak
post Sep 6 2022, 03:18 PM
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I am only familiar with 3rd Ed and a sprinkle of 4th so with that disclaimer established:

QUOTE (pbangarth @ Sep 4 2022, 04:56 PM) *
A magic weapon ceases to function magically when it leaves contact with the one to whom it is bonded.
If you mean a Weapon Focus, yes. If you meant an astral construct, then it's independent:
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Nov 19 2004, 08:38 PM) *
Well, provided you come across an astral construct of a gun and astral construct of a bullet that said gun can fire, you could conceivably kill a magician's astral form.


QUOTE (pbangarth @ Sep 4 2022, 04:56 PM) *
An artificial hand is considered part of the individual who has paid Essence for it.

If that artificial hand were detachable,
I ran through a similar scenario considering a mechadendrite versus a cybertail; can a cybertail paid for with Essence deliver Touch spells? I think this is similar to the Ocular Drone cybereyes in 4th Edition. They are paid for with Essence so you can cast spells through the LoS they grant. But they are also detachable. The notorious FAQ has this to say about that:
QUOTE (SR4a FAQ)
Can I cast a spell through an ocular drone, since I have paid Essence for it, when the drone is not in my body?
Magicians cannot normally target spells through electronic imaging devices; they can only target spells through cybereyes because they are paid for with Essence. A magician can cast spells through an ocular drone while it is “docked” in their eye socket, because it is acting like a regular cybereye. Once the drone has left the character’s body, it can no longer be used to target spells.
so it's a good question, but I think this precedent is the general stance taken officially.

QUOTE (pbangarth @ Sep 4 2022, 04:56 PM) *
If that artificial hand were detachable, and hurled at an opponent while clutching a magic weapon, would that weapon be considered to be still touching the person to whom it is bonded?
I am going to go with a "that depends". Specifically, that depends just where the detachment occurs. If you detach the artificial hand at the ankle and hurl the artificial hand (trailing a wrist, arm, torso, neck, head, and various appendages) then I'd say the weapon focus remains active. If you detach at the hip, probably a similar story. If you detach somewhere in the region of the ribs, I think the weapon focus would initially remain active but unless the Time Of Flight was pretty brief, it would be deactivated by the time it hit its target. If you detach at the shoulder or more distally, I think it would not deactivate immediately; it would deactivate as soon as it was no longer in the owner's astral aura.

Certain life forms like starfish and certain bushes can be sectioned and each part remains alive and regrows whatever parts it needs to remain whole and viable (provided certain conditions are met). If such a being bonded the focus, regrew itself entirely, and then hurled a weapon held onto by its clone, I believe the weapon focus would remain active because both clones would share the same astral signature which is what ties the focus to its owner.

Probably the easiest ways to go-go-Gadget-arms an attack is to use Telescoping Cyberlimbs (MM.40) if you're happy with only a 1 metre extension. If you're just wanting to "shoot" a manifesting spirit/magician then you could bond a whole series of taser or speargun weapon foci. Fire one and its projectile remains in contact with you via the tether. But it's a one-shot item so then you fire the next speargun, and so on. All those tethers might impose some penalty. You'd need to be astrally present (eg Astrally Perceiving) if your target were purely astral. In theory you could find astral constructs of firearms and ammunition on the astral plane but it's pretty rare to encounter alchera, scrounge through them, and return to your body alive without the construct floating off. Whether combustion causing heat and expanding gases propel ammunition in an astral construct of a firearm is probably purely academic.

It might be possible to design a specific weapon focus which is a firearm/bow which uses replenishable propulsion like a CO2 cannister to fire arrows/flechettes which trail a monowire spool connecting them to the weapon itself. You craft the focus with (for example) 20 such units of ammunition wired into it all along, so they are all part of the formula. You only need to bind the focus once to activate all the arrows. Then you can fire each of them in order to trigger the weapon's damage code. Crucially though you've created a weapon focus where bits of it move quickly rather than creating ammunition foci. It would be very niche!
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pbangarth
post Sep 6 2022, 06:16 PM
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Thanks, Bodak. What a wonderfully sincere and incisive reply to a tongue-in-cheek post!

Now I actually have some background to think about.
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Iduno
post Sep 8 2022, 02:52 AM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Sep 4 2022, 11:56 AM) *
I ask for forgiveness in advance for this bit of silliness, especially if this question has been asked before.

A magic weapon ceases to function magically when it leaves contact with the one to whom it is bonded.

An artificial hand is considered part of the individual who has paid Essence for it. Therefore a magic weapon wielded by the owner, using that hand, does not lose its magic.

If that artificial hand were detachable, and hurled at an opponent while clutching a magic weapon, would that weapon be considered to be still touching the person to whom it is bonded?

*ducks*


What if it were attached to you with a chain or similar, integral to its form? Like some sort of grappling hook, except it's your hand?

I *think* the rules allowed weapon focus stun guns with the trailing wires, because you were still holding the weapon, but the ones with darts that aren't attached don't work.
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Stahlseele
post Sep 10 2022, 10:18 PM
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I am pretty damn sure, that THIS EXACT QUESTION has come up several times before.
We came to the conclusion, that this works with the Grapple-Hand Implant Cyberhand.
Also, you are not thinking far enough along with this.
TOW-Missle ring any bells?
Those are connected by wire to the launcher untill impact.
So that works.
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Bodak
post Sep 11 2022, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Sep 6 2022, 06:16 PM) *
reply to a tongue-in-cheek post!
My reply had a cybertongue-in-cheek as well. But if I'm going to reply, I might as well answer the question in the process!

You were initially asking if the cyberhand (paid for with Essence) would continue to count as being in contact with the magic weapon. Something to consider is that the cyberhand could be a weapon focus, itself.

"Foci and fetishes can have any form a character can easily carry and use" - "any physical object can be enchanted as a focus. Some flashy street magicians use enchanted radios, pocket computers, soykaf drums, cigarette lighters and credsticks as foci." (SR3.189) "Any inanimate object can serve as the telesma: a wooden wand, a jewelled charm, a weapon, a car, an oddly shaped stone and so on." (MitS.43) "It is possible to enchant cyberware devices, but this must be done before the item is implanted." (M&M.47)

That way the cyberhand weapon-focus (paid for with Essence) is in contact with itself, keeping itself activated. Don't forget to Dikote it (Ally spirit not included - for demonstration purposes only).

QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 10 2022, 10:18 PM) *
TOW-Missle ring any bells?
As long as the TOW-Missle counts as "any form a character can easily carry and use" such as "a weapon, a car," etc. it could qualify as a telesma for a weapon focus too. Instead of using Launch Weapons (Int) though, you'd need Cyber-implant Combat (Str): "this skill allows those with the right cyberware to make the most effective use of it." So, do you have the right cyberware, chummer?
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Stahlseele
post Sep 13 2022, 12:47 AM
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There's a REASON why 90% of my Characters are Trolls.
5% are Ork and Dwarf.
5% Human and Elf and Other.
If i can not use a Motorcycle as a melee or thrown weapon, the character has not been made according to my standards.
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