Charm City [OOC] Options

[pbangarth]

(OOC: Surprise is such a pain. I have a suspicion many GMs don't bother. Anyway with your edge burn Willie isn't surprised, and he gets to go first. But he doesn't have line of sight on everything. Also there are noises and sights, but as discussed with the group, gunfire is something else entirely, and besides being deafening and bright it's something specifically listened for that drones and sound sensors or routinely set to listen for and people notice, versus critters yelling and tearing into each other, which would presumably be a common enough sound out here. Anyway the point of all that is I believe the weapon Willie has ready is his knife.)

Look at that! The GM takes pity on a player/PC in the first run of a campaign. Thanks!

I/Willie will try to be more thoughtful in future, even if automatic gunfire is sweet music to Willie's ears.

[sunnyside]

That last post took a ridiculous amount of time to make between having to look up rules and character sheets. I'll get the rust off eventually. Maybe start remember folks stats. Well, I guess we'll see if you even want to try and bring these two in on future runs.

[pbangarth]

I need help.

Did Willie Surprise any of the three in the water on his side? I believe that any who were Surprised could not act directly against Willie in the first Initiative pass.

[sunnyside]

You surprised a bunch of them, but they're still delaying actions that trigger at the start of the second pass right?

I guess with Willie's high initiative it feels a bit the same. Although if they had managed to surprise Willie that would have changed things.

It's possible one could argue Flatline and Lenny should have missed out on going. But Willie did yell out in the first pass. Feels fair to let them go.

[pbangarth]

Wow. I have prided myself on finding cool little dodges in the rules. In all the years I have played, though, I never thought to use a delayed action to circumvent at least some of the restrictions of Surprise. So these squidgy things, even if they have only one IP, still get to attack Willie. I will have to be less reliant on his speed from now on.

I bow to you, master. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

So, do those two engulf attacks come before Willie's second IP, or after it?

[sunnyside]

Before.

I don't know if I can take particular credit for that. The rules description of surprise mentions the situation where people are using delayed actions to jump someone. If anything the surprise rules help the defender, versus the usual way delayed actions get to go first.

However as I mentioned I suspect most GMs just avoid the fiddly surprise rules.

[pbangarth]

He strikes with his knife at one of the other creatures near him. "Blast the ones I'm not fighting!"

Awwww damn. Surely Lenny isn't going to use the electrical shocker on the one in the water near Willie, is he? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[sunnyside]

It's a good thought. Maybe that new processor again.

But you'll have to wait to find out Mr. speedy pants.

Actually I did give Flatline the initiative spell, but he didn't want to mess with it given the invisibility spells. Probably would have been worth it still, but hey, maybe players should stick around (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[pbangarth]

(OOC: Here's where wired reflexes are really nice. We're onto the next turn, but Willie goes again, having the highest initiative in the first pass. )

Against things that have only one IP, as in this case, Willie will sometimes strike/shoot first and go to Full Defense, using up his second IP, and then attack again on the third IP.

In this case, since he has a knife out anyway and his Knife Skill is better than his Dodge, a Full Parry gives him 19 dice against the first attack of his opponent(s). Seeing as this last attack isn't likely to down the creature in the water, that is likely what Willie will do.

I built Willie originally for a 300 BP low level game years ago. I managed to pack a lot into those 300 BP.

I reincarnated him for a campaign here on DS which didn't last long. There are a few players here in Charm City who were in that one too. They will attest, I'm sure, that the GM's ruling to make timing and mechanics easier for him by allowing PCs with multiple IPs to do them all at once was not a good idea. I argued against that idea, saying that a fast PC would have an inordinate advantage and skew combat, but to no avail.

So I made sure Willie was, indeed, "Mr. Speedy Pants". It was ugly. Six bursts of automatic fire before anybody else got to do anything. It wasn't fun for GM or the players. As I say, the game didn't last long.

[sunnyside]

It could occasionally be like that in old editions, where speed was definitely king. Though never that extreme. Speed is still a big deal of course.

I could see perhaps re-interpreting the rules that you have to declare all your actions for a turn when you take your first, with actions being wasted if the no longer make sense by the time they come around. But that would be a notable speed nerf. Also I think people play crunchy games in part to enjoy the wargaming that modern pen and paper RPGs grew from, even if your character is realistically making split second decisions and with minimal ability to even look around. That means letting a player think for a moment on their strategy. Though your full defense strategy seems like a solid one right at the moment.

In terms of the action, engulf is another one of those poorly worded powers. I'm kinda willing to lean into the "rule" that the exact workings of powers may very and have some differing GM tweaks. In this case I take the "can't move" not as them being paralyzed and free to hit, but like the subduing melee combat rules which the engulf rules seem to be trying to mimic. Take a -3 (not cumulative so still only -3 if engulfed twice) to defense rolls against melee while engulfed.

I put the rules down earlier for convenience, but just to avoid scrolling it's base DV4, plus net hits, against body + 1/2 impact armor and then a complex action strength + body check to break free.

[pbangarth]

Yeah, a high Initiative score really subsumes a quick REA, which it actually does, and a quick Perception to allow someone with 3 IP to switch targets after shooting and assessing damage in all of 1 second.

A lot of the time, I play an Awakened PC, but once in a while it is fun to go full cyber and be the tank.

.
.
.
.

Until some mage melts Willie's brain from two clicks out.

[pbangarth]

Speaking of Awakened PCs, I've been thinking about Bongo Slade and Initiation.

The books are pretty sketchy about time needed, mechanism, etc. There is a section in Street Magic about it, including ways to reduce the karma cost. Joining a group is definitely not Bongo's way, but doing a thesis/masterpiece (p. 52) is very much his style, especially if the alternate form for an artisan is available. There is timing for an Extended Test for that described, but not for the whole shebang.

Sunnyside, can you fill me in on how you would like to manage this for Bongo, should I decide to go that way? However long it would take, he would have to fit it in among jobs, gigs, and nights out with admiring women.

Initiation is more for a long-term goal of Bongo, that bit about playing the heartbeat of Gaia, but there are more immediate benefits, too. I wasn't too sure what Metamagic might be attractive to him, but a closer read of Adept Centering, particularly in light of his Artist's Way Quality (Way of the Adept p. 13), would allow him to enhance several skills that the team can use: Perception, Shadowing, Infiltration, Palming, Survival, Escape Artist, as well as Combat Skills.

I'd have to figure out an appropriate method of centering.

[sunnyside]

I was hoping Thanee was going to post. But between mission stuff is a key good time to be asynchronous and I think she's wondering some of the same questions. I think I'll have time tomorrow to make a post advancing time and maybe laying down some hooks and OOC timeframes.

[Thanee]

Was busy with preparations for vacation (I will be gone the next two weeks, but will have internet, and should be able to check in and post, especially in the evening).

Bye
Thanee

[pbangarth]

Willie's never met a Hellhound before. What are the chances, eh? In a forest full of paranormals?

[sunnyside]

Willie's never met a Hellhound before. What are the chances, eh? In a forest full of paranormals?

Actually Hellhounds are so famous I'd give Willie credit or at least a roll to know ehat it is. Ditto Gargoyles, ghouls, and dragons.

These guys just don't get that kinda press coverage.

Also I meant to add a comment that, due to only holding a knife, I'm assuming Willie is just carrying a shovel.

[sunnyside]

Oh, and I owe everyone a post, and need to get to some dice for Willie.

But I just wanted to remind you of the funky way SR handles movement across multiple initiative passes.

I think that might have always been the case? Commonly ignored though. Anyway the doggos will "help" Willie put with closing the distance so it should work out.

[pbangarth]

Well, I had hoped that with the Running rolls, Willie could cover the distance in one IP. Whatever happens, this should be fun.

[sunnyside]

I'm reminded of what they did in Cyberpunk 2077. I'm finally playing it now. Hey I'm a dad with a job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Anyway they put in a lot of work since it launched and I've experienced few of the problems people were making fun of it for. They've also added a lot of extra content.

One thing they changed was that they just sort of suspended disbelief when it came to clothing and armor. People were running around everywhere generally looking like they ride the short bus and get to dress themselves, including needing to wear a helmet when eating at a restaurant, because they want the best bonuses from whatever they've been able to find. Eventually the game designers just gave up and let you have the bonus as long as your own and select the gear, but you can separately have your character wear whatever they want.

This is coming up due to Willie apparently having been wearing a hood and helmet the entire time. Lenny was too actually, but that was part of his creators thing about him being paranoid and uncool.

Maybe Willie needs to ask around for something like this but cooler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tewqsenq1g0

Plenty of similar concepts in sci fi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9VgGGFvrLE
Well and these days everything marvel.

Or something, I'm just musing.

[pbangarth]

(OOC: I think you have some math off on the encumbrance with your armor, but with body 8 you're still covered. I also note that in the past I'd been doing combat slightly wrong in that I didn't re-roll initiative every turn, and it does seem like you are supposed to.

Anyway for the coming turn to keep things flowing you might want to just assume you go first. and go through the attack pattern. The one twist is that you should make a perception test (visual) but with a hefty ( for other people) -9. Lenny and Flatline probably won't be much help with their dice pools. While technically it shouldn't make a difference, it seems fair to give two dice back if you still have the eyelight system on. Though Lenny must have had a reason to say turn it off. The little spot isn't that easy to see though. )

The 'encumbrance' to which I was referring was the metric on p. 161 about the effect of multiple layers of armour on AGI and REA. The 14/8 encumbrance I calculated is based on the helmet and PPP system being described as not adding to this metric. Am I wrong in that?

I see the bit about STR 8 being able to carry 80 kilograms and think that is OK.

Yeah, he wouldn't wear all this shit into a restaurant. But out in the wild woods, you bet. Here in the frozen north, it is common to see a bicyclist wearing a hoodie pulled up under their helmet a good half of the year. And the FF Full body suit is described as fitting under stuff. If I am overreaching, let me know.

I like to do an Initiative roll anyway, even if it seems obvious Willie will be first. That way, when he actually is damaged, I can figure out the result.

Hey, if that Marvel thing exists, Willie is all in for that! Not so much the air bag.

[sunnyside]

It seems like there ought to be some models evolved from the state of the art today.

However Willie making some comments to the group about wanting something like that but finding the options unattractive, especially the "air bags" That might give Selina some ideas. Either on her own to help Willie out or maybe to pitch as an idea to Frank, who is working on an armor line. Selina does have character generation points spent on being a fashion designer which we should work back in somehow. Conceivably Paul could get in on it as he's something of an afficionado on soft body stuff, which might be able to operate on similar principle but be cooler than the airbags. I don't know if any of you are remotely interested in that, but just letting you know I'm open to such.

Anyway I think you can combine the armor, but my read is that PP and helmet modify the armor rating. I.e. if you had a 5/5 piece of armor and put on a helmet it's the same as having 6/7 armor, and will be a problem if you only have body 3. Form fitting is just a gift to get better numbers, but PP seems to exist to allow heavy body folk to leverage that. Also filling in the gap that usually the impact rating is lower. But anyway with body 8 Willie still wouldn't have penalties.

As a side note since Shadowrun doesn't track encumbrance generally I have players use strength instead of body as what you compare against the armor value. That seems to make a lot more sense than being able to wear more armor because you're healthy. However I figured I already had too many house rules, and while getting extra points might be fun and not interfere with using existing characters, this one would make existing character builds and plans not work.

At least Willie is getting a lot of use out of his strength in any case.

[Thanee]

BTW, are there elevated streets in the "uptown", or is all traffic on ground level in "downtown"?

Bye
Thanee

[pbangarth]

(OOC: I don't know if it would make Willie reconsider something of a panic response, but I wanted to correct your damage assessment before assuming he goes for the AK and processing that. Even with all those net successes, the hounds attack still isn't enough to punch Willie's substantial armor rating. So that's 6 STUN damage.

Also since you mention not being used to knockdown I'd want to highlight that being on the ground in melee is a net 5 die swing in the attacker's favor. When Willie is on his feet they haven't been able to even scratch him. Without their gimmick of coming in stealthy, a knockdown attempt is unlikely to be successful since with his body they need 4 net hits. Also only 6 could attack if he's standing. But if Willie is on the ground stretched out like a buffet and them with that much of an extra bonus, well, Willie thoughts about the pack having a heyday might prove accurate.

Standing isn't free or a sure thing though. It's a simple action that requires a body+willpower(2) test with wound modifiers. Not a hard test for Willie, but without edge maybe not one you'd want to assume he'd get to in a future turn. )

Thanks for pointing out the error in damage code. He's actually closer to being out with stun damage, as he only has 10 boxes of those, whereas he has 12 of physical.

Ok, I'm confused now. I thought "that's their shtick" meant Willie didn't get a chance to resist. Should he have done so?

I'm zonked from a weekend of sheep trialling, so please just tell me what I missed and what I should do next. I'll be more with it after some rest ... and wine.

If a rewrite of my post is necessary, I can do that.

[sunnyside]

Thanks for pointing out the error in damage code. He's actually closer to being out with stun damage, as he only has 10 boxes of those, whereas he has 12 of physical.

Well, true. The difference being that if he does go down to stun, even if there's overflow, he wouldn't be dead. Just down. Assuming there isn't a TPK nor critters ignoring the rest of the team to continually lay into Willie, he could be back on his feet pretty quick.

They're fresh and full of edge. I don't think many folks in the SR world understand karma and edge enough to talk about them, but they might figure out or Willie could clue them in that they can't just rely on ol' Willie to handle everything and need to give this their all.

Ok, I'm confused now. I thought "that's their shtick" meant Willie didn't get a chance to resist. Should he have done so?

That's a one time thing entering combat. They'd have to disengage and spend time setting it up to do that again, and, since he'd be expecting the same trick, I'd give Willie some bonuses. Willie understands this to the extent that he appreciates the attacks from the newcomers seemed to come out of nowhere, making him unable to block, but now he can see them clearly enough. The critters all look pretty similar, no extra large ones with cool scars or anything.

I'm zonked from a weekend of sheep trialling, so please just tell me what I missed and what I should do next. I'll be more with it after some rest ... and wine.

If a rewrite of my post is necessary, I can do that.

Well, Shadowrun is crunchy enough you're sort of in a wargaming place, though with stealth and other considerations that you figured out. The pieces are on the table. I just wanted to make sure you had full and correct information before finalizing choices.

[sunnyside]

BTW, are there elevated streets in the "uptown", or is all traffic on ground level in "downtown"?

Bye
Thanee

They are starting to get interconnected by a network of skywalks in some areas. There are courier drones and mobility scooter type things traveling those paths. But no cars or trucks up there yet. The exception being the Ares HQ "Archology" covering the Station North arts district, where Gatsby's is. But that's for Ares employees only.