Charm City [OOC] Options

[sunnyside]

Well, get into it if you like.

Similarly if Bongo has the 5 karma to join the group and still initiate think about what you'd get. Ditto any gear etc.

And pitch what you want for drones Koekepan. You're also free to just ask me to propose something.

[Koekepan]

Still working on it. My main problem is that Arsenal isn't very good for "this, but less of it." Maybe I'm blind, but trying to spec a bare-bones wheeled drone the size of a coffeemug with a single arm and a tiny, basic sensor package doesn't seem to be in their rules.

[pbangarth]

Bongo doesn't have enough karma points to join and Initiate, but he can spend the 5 points to join, raise Locksmith to level 2, and save a bit for Initiating later.

Joining the group probably will be a fair bit of RP. If we want to get into the next run, I'd be happy just to raise Locksmith now and spend some time after the next run to Initiate.

[sunnyside]

Still working on it. My main problem is that Arsenal isn't very good for "this, but less of it." Maybe I'm blind, but trying to spec a bare-bones wheeled drone the size of a coffeemug with a single arm and a tiny, basic sensor package doesn't seem to be in their rules.

Not even the usually impressive Rigger 3 will give you something like that. They figure shadow runners are willing to pay for a little more capability, so what you can get is some is something more capable, but it'll cost you a grand.

You're looking for something closer to a toy, but with enough electronics to follow the proper drone rules. I'd be willing to come down to 250 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) new, but Paul with some searching can find a broken one for a hundred that he can then fix up.

[Thanee]

Well, how about this for poker.

Depending on your play style, roll con or negotiation + charisma or logic. You can propose things like I mentioned above that could modify the roll.

For games like this with a normal ante to total chips ratio treat the whole pile of chips like ten units.

Each round of play (which would represent multiple hands) results everyone getting a unit from everyone they beat. In some games, including this one, it's acceptable to just leave.

Eventually you get a showdown.

First roll the defense on a judge intentions test (Willpower + charisma)+4 (because you're deliberately trying to avoid tells) to set a threshold for your "poker face"
Then roll a judge intentions test (Intiuition + charisma), which will be compared to the others "poker face" thresholds.
Winning that gives a +6 on the subsequent roll.
Then do the above roll for being all in.

So...

Con + Charisma 4 hits
Judge Intentions (Defense) 3 hits
Judge Intentions 4 hits

Bye
Thanee

[Koekepan]

You're looking for something closer to a toy, but with enough electronics to follow the proper drone rules. I'd be willing to come down to 250 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) new, but Paul with some searching can find a broken one for a hundred that he can then fix up.

OK, I'll go for that. In a milieu that includes the Bust-a-Move mini walker, that seems eminently plausible.

For the arachniform, what would the price be for legs off, say, scrapped anthroforms? Or if full-size is impractically expensive, something along the lines of off-brand, larger Bust-a-Move drones? Or would it be easier for him to just set his van workshop to the purpose of leg manufacture, perhaps using off-the-shelf hardware for a few standard items like actuators? I'm hoping for at least two foot (maximum extension) legs, and six inch pedipalps, giving (body included) a five foot maximum leg span that can fold up into roughly a two-by-two-by-two package. Then the fun will come with add-ons like gecko feet, sensory packages, and all the rest of it. But it hinges on what he could fabricate/purchase. Bearing in mind that an individual leg segment would have a diameter of a few inches at most, and a length of maybe a foot at most, making it pretty easy to fabricate on an automated lathe or CNC mill.

[sunnyside]

For the arachniform, what would the price be for legs off, say, scrapped anthroforms? Or if full-size is impractically expensive, something along the lines of off-brand, larger Bust-a-Move drones? Or would it be easier for him to just set his van workshop to the purpose of leg manufacture, perhaps using off-the-shelf hardware for a few standard items like actuators? I'm hoping for at least two foot (maximum extension) legs, and six inch pedipalps, giving (body included) a five foot maximum leg span that can fold up into roughly a two-by-two-by-two package. Then the fun will come with add-ons like gecko feet, sensory packages, and all the rest of it. But it hinges on what he could fabricate/purchase. Bearing in mind that an individual leg segment would have a diameter of a few inches at most, and a length of maybe a foot at most, making it pretty easy to fabricate on an automated lathe or CNC mill.

Now this is the sort of thing that seems well within RAW. I think you're just talking about taking your pick of small drone and then putting the walker mod from Arsenal on it to get a spider. Gecko feed and sensors are pretty standard add-ons too.

I suspect the real question is how cheaply can you get it. But using the above gives the statline and an idea of base price. The discount for doing the mods yourself is in there too.

Though Paul does have the dayjob "disadvantage" so his time restricted, but you'll have extra funds from that coming in that could cover something.

Again I could try and pitch something if you'd like, but you might enjoy working something out.

[Koekepan]

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

A junkyard torso from an MCT Housekeeper (medium sized household anthroform drone, new price around NY2500), used as a basis for modifications and upgrades:

Level 1 amphibious operation (i.e. water resistant).
Body Stabiliser
Level 1 armour
Chameleon Coating
Gecko tips
Improved sensor array
Touch sensors
Walker mode

On paper, this would involved many slots but I would argue that the armour is really the only one that wouldn't be integrated into the initial design. Does this seem reasonable so far?

[pbangarth]

Well shit. You are making it easy to make the jump. I will consider Bongo's next step.

[sunnyside]

Well shit. You are making it easy to make the jump. I will consider Bongo's next step.

Sometimes things just click together. This bit wrote itself.

[sunnyside]

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

A junkyard torso from an MCT Housekeeper (medium sized household anthroform drone, new price around NY2500), used as a basis for modifications and upgrades:

Level 1 amphibious operation (i.e. water resistant).
Body Stabiliser
Level 1 armour
Chameleon Coating
Gecko tips
Improved sensor array
Touch sensors
Walker mode

On paper, this would involved many slots but I would argue that the armour is really the only one that wouldn't be integrated into the initial design. Does this seem reasonable so far?

For an origional design maybe something pre-Renraku shutdown that didn't have the safety conscious limitations of the Housekeeper/Manservent designs. So a bit more free with movement, and able to look like a Drider if I'm understanding you right.

As a utility drone I could see Walker mode and arms included in the manservant price and statline, and perhaps body stabiliser, gecko tips, and improved sensor array as standard, slot wise, though still raising the price.

Touch sensors and armor would be an add on, but I could see a company offering those as a combined product to be added to drones.

[Koekepan]

This isn't supposed to look like a Drider, but just a sort of electromechanical scale up of a Goliath tarantula.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_tarantula

If the junkyard torso is too unsuitable he'd just start from zero with a basic tubular space frame for the basis and build it as an entirely new device.

My thinking is that most of these would therefore be integrated from the start - amphibious operation could be designed in, as could the improved electronics and gecko tips, for example.

[sunnyside]

Well, maybe let's take a step back and ask what is it that the drone is supposed to do?

When I understood the torso to serve as the top of a drider with arms I could see it being used for all sorts of utility functions, and it could easily switch to a shadowrunner's needs.

Just something crawling around isn't very useful for anybody. There are smaller drones able to do that better. So it feels like it needs hands on the front legs, a tool mount on its mouth, or some kind of Tachikoma thing going on.

[Koekepan]

It's supposed to be a viable ride for smaller drones, a carrier for random crap through crummy conditions, and capable of crawling pretty much anywhere. It should also be capable of grabbing with its paws, which is a normal arachnid capability, and at need biting although it's not intended to be much of a combat drone. However, it should be a great monitoring platform (possibly with some upgrades) and a great way of scaring the crap out of people (especially people with arachnophobia). It should move a lot faster than his crawler drones, so having a shankworm or a daddy sniperlegs hitching a ride should be entirely viable.

And on top of all that, it's a proof-of-concept for constructing more leggy things as time goes on. It's a learning experience! With legs. Very many legs.

[sunnyside]

Sorry for the delay. Time's been totally full of family stuff.

Merry Christmas!

[pbangarth]

Sorry for the delay. Time's been totally full of family stuff.

Merry Christmas!

It's allowed. Merriment to all.

[sunnyside]

It's supposed to be a viable ride for smaller drones, a carrier for random crap through crummy conditions, and capable of crawling pretty much anywhere. It should also be capable of grabbing with its paws, which is a normal arachnid capability, and at need biting although it's not intended to be much of a combat drone. However, it should be a great monitoring platform (possibly with some upgrades) and a great way of scaring the crap out of people (especially people with arachnophobia). It should move a lot faster than his crawler drones, so having a shankworm or a daddy sniperlegs hitching a ride should be entirely viable.

And on top of all that, it's a proof-of-concept for constructing more leggy things as time goes on. It's a learning experience! With legs. Very many legs.

Well, Ok, I could see that. I could even see something of a spider type courier drone being a standard thing, based of a statline conversation from the base you're talking about to an eight legged variety. Maybe with the gecko tips, amphibious operation, a special storage space (in the "abdomen" ), and the very light armor as standard. Perhaps one could be gotten at a discount after being hit by a truck while on a job and Tubesnake could fix it up and see about adding some of the other mods.

Alternatively it might really be more of a personal growth project. Maybe tied into Paul's work with "soft" droids. Like the legs end in soft grippers, and it's generally a hydraulic system (which I think it spider accurate ). Paul has some software skills, so while new droid development is indicated as something that takes substantial effort, he might be linking together software for things like a crawler to walker mod and some industrial gripper code etc to get a homegrown beast made.

Now an issue with all of this is time, and mostly that's an issue of the day job disadvantage. But depending on choices made maybe it wouldn't be much of a problem.

I might also be willing to let the latter option something he's been working on a while already, and maybe has already put some cash into. Part of that might hinge on me doing a character audit. I remember thinking you might have overpaid, and so have a little nuyen lying around from chargen, now that there's something he wants. Or maybe draining how much lifestyle he prepaid.

[Koekepan]

The purpose here is very much character development. This would motivate raises in various skills including knowledge in, for example, physics, chemistry and related materials sciences as well as software, hardware and to some extent cybertechnology. As a bonus, he ends up with a cool and useful drone.

As for driving forces, there is a number of options including closed loop pneumatics, and electrically-driven artificial muscles.

The idea is definitely de novo construction, with junkyard finds mostly saving money on things that he'll be tearing down anyway rather than going to CyberTech Supplies Inc for a bulk order of actuators.

As far as cost is concerned, it could be pro-rated based on how things go. With his machine shop he could outright fabricate most of the parts from trashed items, picking out what is still in spec and what is only fit for recycling.

[sunnyside]

It's straying into house rules, however since you aren't trying to wrangle a fleet of freebie Steel Lynx I'm guessing the other players will be OK.

In part because he's already done work in the area, and some special skills, I could see leaning into the soft thing. Maybe instead of just the feet grippers the storage space of the abdomen could be a bunch of long "soft" hydraulic grippers. Allowing it to enclose things ("small" or smaller drones and things of that size) in a spider looking abdomen, concealing the item if there is any webbing between the grippers, or gently conformally gripping much larger things as soft grippers do.

[Koekepan]

Curse my creativity leading me into the houserule trap!

[sunnyside]

Frames and such are probably the cheap bit of drones these days. Actually, that's probably mostly true of real drones in our days. It's the electronics and such that are a problem. Well, and stuff like gecko tips would take more advanced fabs than we have.


Though, on the issue in the caves, I do think it reasonable that Paul could make some made to fit bearings. Maybe needing his truck though. It does seem a bit much for a drone with standard tools. He should just have oil though. Maybe a variable transformer he can dial in for sake of convenience. It might come up as an issue with some regularity.

Anyway is what you want the "soft spider" with the grabber abdomen, shorter leg grabbers, and manservant stateline as the base or has that gone too afield?

[Koekepan]

Paul could probably fabricate a simple set of sleeve bearings, and would have a small stock of standard size roller and ball bearings on his cart, but if it were a really weird size he'd have to fabricate them, and that would have to be in the van. A fall-back might be crafting an additional set of shims or bushings to let a standard size fit an odd gap.

I'm ok with the grabber abdomen, perhaps using a simple tubular spaceframe for a rigid structure as a baseline. For the rest, I'm mostly thinking of rigid structure with light composite legs and joint structures, which then contain within them the conduit for power transfer (whether hydraulic, pneumatic, electrical or other). The cephalothorax can be rigid construction, as can the pedipalps. No centaurian shape, just an oversized spider in external profile. Gecko tips should be off-the-shelf, and in fact likely salvageable from a junkyard, as should most of the other components. In principle, there's nothing new here except for the configuration and the software work.

[sunnyside]

So I'm forgetting the edition the rules were in, but at least one of them had the concept of a more dumpster diving approach to vehicle construction, or at least more on used vehicles. The idea was that while wear and tear was normally ignored in the game, in these cases you'd start adding in disadvantages. Something like gremlins being the primary one I think. Which I think operated like Paul's own "bad luck"

Gecko tips are probably the sort of thing you'd just want to get new and properly made, because they're cheap.

So I guess the question is would you be up for cheap and characterful.

[Koekepan]

At this stage, absolutely. The idea is that whatever becomes too troublesome gets an upgrade from his own machining. Thus for example a leg joint that gets too wobbly owing to wear in the bearing surfaces will simply be refabricated.

This also lets him get some use out of any sort of equipment that he salvages from cyberwear upgrades that he does for anyone.

[sunnyside]

This also lets him get some use out of any sort of equipment that he salvages from cyberwear upgrades that he does for anyone.

I'm not quite sure where to go with that one. But a thought that popped into my head is that Willie might have an angle on a clinic that maybe could use someone to help with cyber, which Flatline would be useless for.

I'll make a pitch for the drone soonish. I still hold that the software is the tricky bit, and overall that basic structure in vehicles is the cheap part. I like that as it meshes well with how the game deals with damage versus the relatively low cost of repair. One just has to assume bullets are tearing into things that can stop the vehicle, and might at least require an engine swap today, but that a skilled mechanic can work through in the 2070s.