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> Lifestyle Question
JaronK
post May 24 2004, 02:43 AM
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What all does a lifestyle really get you? In this case, I've bought a high lifestyle for my character. It says he gets a car, but what else? Tres Chic suits? Fine Clothes? Telecom with videos and such?

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Siege
post May 24 2004, 02:48 AM
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Oy.

GM opinions differ on this one.

My group says transportation does not come included with lifestyle. The average NPC who could afford a High lifestyle would have access to a car, but it doesn't mean it comes part and parcel.

Clothing that befits the lifestyle are available, as are real foods (at High) and most of the home luxuries like cable, internet access and so on.

-Siege
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Cain
post May 24 2004, 05:06 AM
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The advanced lifestyle rules in SSG cover this in good detail.

Generally, though-- High and above lifestyles have access to cars whenever they need it. It won't be a good shadowrunning car, but they don't have to take the bus or monorail. He'll have access to high-speed Matrix access, but not necessarily good decker access-- it's a bit like trying to hack across your dad's DSL modem. You'll have access to suits and ties and so on, but not necessarily really great designer labels; you can assume that you have access to a dry cleaner, though.

In general, having a high and above lifestyle only provides "color" benefits, and not specific in-game advantages. There are some specific advantages that you can gain, but unless you've been injured or are a rigger, you won't have to worry about them too much.
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Abstruse
post May 24 2004, 12:07 PM
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SSG covers in detail all the lifestyle stuff, but doesn't mention transportation. I'd say it's GM's call. However, I wouldn't give the character a car unless he buys it. Maybe he has a driver he can call like a shuttle type thing like in hotels with his building.

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TinkerGnome
post May 24 2004, 12:42 PM
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Rigger 3 is pretty explicit about a car not being part of your lifestyle. The lifestyle can provide some cash for vehicle mainteance. SSG lifestyles provide neither.

You can always take the tube or cabs as part of your lifestyle, though.
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Xirces
post May 24 2004, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Rigger 3 is pretty explicit about a car not being part of your lifestyle. The lifestyle can provide some cash for vehicle mainteance. SSG lifestyles provide neither.

You can always take the tube or cabs as part of your lifestyle, though.

Which means having a SIN or a good fake ID.

Personally I'd rule that you have access to a car, driven by someone else for basic "getting around" purposes.

Shadowbeat also had a lot of detail about which electronics were included at various lifestyles. It'll probably need updating though.
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Arethusa
post May 24 2004, 08:02 PM
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Why would you need a SIN, fake or legit, for taking public transportation or cabs?
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kuroko
post May 24 2004, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
Why would you need a SIN, fake or legit, for taking public transportation or cabs?

<scene>
"You're recording where I went?"
"Hey bub, taxi commission rules."
(glare from passenger)
"You need gas."
(driver glances at the fuel gauge reading full)
"Hey, you're right."
(sees gas being delivered to a station and drives into it causing a huge bang)
</scene>

For some reason that scene sprang to mind. But to answer your question, it's because the tube and most cab services will require at least a rating 2 credstick. I'd imagine there are some cab companies that have a policy of taking on people for cash or certified cred, but expect higher rates and nothing extra.
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A Rodent of Unus...
post May 24 2004, 09:55 PM
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See page 240 of SR3 for information on what each lifestyle includes by the standard rules.

Luxury lifestyles include ritzy clothing, a household staff, a powerful car, a cool house, VIP status at clubs and restaraunts, and the works. High lifestyles include a luxury commuter car at his beck and call. Middle lifestyles include a commuter car or tube pass. Everything lower lacks a vehicle.

Optional rules, such as those in Rigger 3 and the Sprawl Survival Guide, go out of their way to state that vehicles aren't included, or at most have a reduced overhead cost. But the standard rules, as written, most certainly do include a vehicle with the top three. So it basically comes down to which rules are in use in any given game.
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Siege
post May 24 2004, 09:57 PM
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It was my understanding that rules in Rigger 3 or SSG are only optional if so noted.

-Siege
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TinkerGnome
post May 24 2004, 10:02 PM
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I suppose you can just not use anything in R3 or SSG at all. But if you use part of the book, you should use all of the non-optional rules in it, generally.
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A Rodent of Unus...
post May 24 2004, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (Siege)
It was my understanding that rules in Rigger 3 or SSG are only optional if so noted.

-Siege

So groups that only play with the core rulebook are still bound by all the optional rules from supplements, eh? :please:
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BitBasher
post May 24 2004, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE
For some reason that scene sprang to mind. But to answer your question, it's because the tube and most cab services will require at least a rating 2 credstick. I'd imagine there are some cab companies that have a policy of taking on people for cash or certified cred, but expect higher rates and nothing extra.
Why on earth do you think that? cash and certified cred are just as valid as a credstick for transactions like that. Furthermore cash and certified cred don't have to be declared on taxes for the cabbie as tips since they're untraceable.
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Eyeless Blond
post May 24 2004, 10:31 PM
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And I don't know about you, but I wouldn't give my credit card number to a cabbie or bus driver unless I had absolutely no other choice. Not once have I paid for a cab, bus, train or subway token with anything other than cash, and I intend to keep it that way. We Americans are way too cavalier with our identification information, especially with the recent surge in ID theft. I imagine in a world where computers are even more easily corruptable people would be even less likely to trust other people with their credstick info.
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Arethusa
post May 24 2004, 10:48 PM
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I find it patently ridiculous that you need a SIN to pay to ride public transit or take a cab. If canon explicitly states this, canon is explicitly wrong.
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KillaJ
post May 24 2004, 11:03 PM
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I just chalk it up to Big Brother keeping his on eye on all us little brothers.
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kuroko
post May 24 2004, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
I find it patently ridiculous that you need a SIN to pay to ride public transit or take a cab.  If canon explicitly states this, canon is explicitly wrong.

Not really. Several areas ( I know Atlanta does) have mechanisms in place to track people using such means of transportation. Now, you're right, it is possible to ride public transport and take a cab here without id, but remenber what a credstick is. It's social security card, credit card, debt card, and id rolled into one. With that and the assumption that the authority in question only wants the SUBSIDIZED service available to tax payers, then the id check can be built into the system payment method. Very simple. Doing the same for cabs is also possible. In the barrens, hell no, you won't find this, and probably not in most middle-lifestyle neighborhoods, but in the higher class ones then yes. See, many police forces are pushing for this right now. Watch law and order sometime - 7 out of 10 episodes they talk to a cabbie. Now that is NY, but anywhere with a large enough cabbie population would face the same situation. With the pressure to solve cases, I see LS pushing for this.
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Arethusa
post May 24 2004, 11:28 PM
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Yeah, I realize that it's a good method for tracking people if you are intent on only allowing subsidized service for those paying taxes, but that's the part I find exceedingly hard to swallow. I cannot accept that the system would explicitly deny public transportation to the disenfranchised. And for cabs, which are privately run, it's simply terrible business practice. I can't see Lonestar or Knight Errant or any other private law enforcement firm being able to levy such heavy legislation.
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Cain
post May 24 2004, 11:45 PM
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I can't see any cabbie turning down good money for any safe reason.

But all that aside-- while the rules say that a high lifestyle means you have a car at your beck and call, that doesn't mean you actually own it. It could mean that your fake ID has a contract with a Flexcar service. Or that you've bribed the local taxi company. The possibilities go on and on. For Luxury lifestyles, I generally interpret it as meaning that you've got a contract with a local limo company.

As a general rule, I allow people to own cars for free, as part of their lifestyle; but they're stock-models only with active gridguide and termination chips. If you want to take it on a Shadowrun, you *will* be traced nine ways from Sunday. I assume any car bought with starting funds/in game has been modified appropriately, unless otherwise specified.
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TinkerGnome
post May 25 2004, 01:04 AM
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Car rental is shown as an expense in the SSG. It's 500 :nuyen: a week, and I'd assume that it might come along with some High and all Luxury lifestyles, if you want it. You would not, however, own the vehicle which can be important since you really couldn't get one without a SIN (real or fake).

For public transportation... if you don't let the SINless ride the bus, how are you ever going to get your nice lawn mowed or your windows washed? The SINless fill out most of the deadend, mindless jobs society has to offer. Almost 30% of the population couldn't ride the bus/tube/rail/whatever if you said that they couldn't use it without a SIN (fake IDs are relatively rare, I assume).
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Siege
post May 25 2004, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (A Rodent of Unusual Size)
QUOTE (Siege @ May 24 2004, 03:57 PM)
It was my understanding that rules in Rigger 3 or SSG are only optional if so noted.

-Siege

So groups that only play with the core rulebook are still bound by all the optional rules from supplements, eh? :please:

Ahhh, one of those.

They can hardly be bound by optional rules from supplements if the rules are defined as optional.

If they are unaware or choose to disregard rules that the manufacturer fails to designate as optional -- nobody but you will give a damn either way.

-Siege
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A Rodent of Unus...
post May 25 2004, 01:22 AM
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I hate to break it to you, sunshine, but you're the one having a problem with it. If someone is just using the core rulebook, Middle lifestyle and up includes a car. If using one of the two supplements (which by definition are optional) that changes those core rules, then they don't.

I have no frelling clue why you have a problem understanding that. It's not exactly a complicated concept.
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Arethusa
post May 25 2004, 01:50 AM
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Uhm, Rodent, did you read the part of Siege's post that says no one's going to care anyway? You should.
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A Rodent of Unus...
post May 25 2004, 03:02 AM
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:please: I'm not the one whining about it, he is. So obviously he does care. Significantly so.
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Siege
post May 25 2004, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
Uhm, Rodent, did you read the part of Siege's post that says no one's going to care anyway? You should.

Doc Funk lives.

Save your breath Areth -- when the personality type in question loses an argument or might be proven to be in error, said personality type resorts to personal attacks in an effort to divert attention from the mistake.

-Siege
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