Projecting limitations, Can you hear on the astral Options

[Joker9125]

Can you hear the physical plane while astrally projecting?

[Jason Farlander]

Yes you can. It says so rather explicitly in SR3.

Page 173, first sentence under "Astral Senses"

(Edit: decided to not be lazy; looked up page number)

This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: May 26 2004, 06:40 AM

[Joker9125]

Its also on page 161. I heard some people saying that you caint and was wondering if this was some 2nd ED throwback or something.

[Omega Skip]

I haven't got my books with me (otherwise I'd look it up myself), but can you listen to sound coming from non-living things as well? Like announcements on the monorail, or a conference call, or the all-too familiar sound of somebody readying his gun of choice?

[Joker9125]

Im pretty sure SR3 P. 173 says that sounds are as easy to hear on the astral as they are in the physical. It dosent make a distinction on type of sound so id say yes.

[Jason Farlander]

The exact quotes (there are two, actually, at the beginning and end of the astral senses section) are " Your astral form has normal human senses of sight and hearing." and "Speech and other sounds are as easy to hear from the astral plane as they are in the physical world."

While it mentions specifically how looking at nonliving objects is different for an astral form, it never mentions anything similar to the idea that sounds originating from nonliving sources are in any way different.

[Omega Skip]

Heh, that's one weird bit of inconsistency right there. I've always tried to handle astral sight and sound similarly: Sound made by living beings sounds clearer and not really any different from the physical plane, but sound made by non-living things sounds muddled, like underwater, and a little distorted - hard to tell exactly what kind of noise, making conference calls almost impossible to understand. I always thought that made more sense.

[Joker9125]

The vision thing can be easily explained. Ive always thought of things ont he astral plane as hazy and blurry so think of it as kinda like a person who caint read without glasses trying to read without his glasses. Thats why their is a +2 modifier to physical tasks while preciving because astral sight is less efficent for such things than regular sight. Or another option is to just say that you caint hear non living things.

[snowRaven]

Hmmm - in previous editions of SR you didn't 'hear' mundane sounds as normal on the astral. You heard the emotional content of the words, just like you could only read the emotional content (aura) of any written text. With a speaker, or handwritten text, the content was big and easy to understand (easier the more emotive the message) but if it was a recording or synthesized voice, you wouldn't understand it as easily. Same with text - reading street signs or other unemotive text was nigh impossible, as was reading data put out by a computer or the similar.

Too lazy to go dig up my 1st and 2nd edition books for page references and exact quotes, but that's the gist of it I think.

[20thCenturyFox]

I don't know the offical rules but i can say that i always make mages make an assensing roll to determine the emotional content of what is being spoken about in the 'real world'. Otherwise i feel it's way to easy to be an 'astral spy'.

I've also made the 'apparition' ability of projecting mages - the ability to appear as a ghostly form in the real world that can communicate with people, a meta-technique.

That'll show those pesky mages! :grinbig:

[kevyn668]

You've made manifesting a MetaMagic technique? Rough.

[Joker9125]

[BitBasher]

[Arethusa]

To be honest, I wonder if that was really thought out at all. I agree with Fox: canon makes it way, way too easy to be an astral spy.

[Jason Farlander]

Well, Arethusa, I think we are all pretty familiar with your belief that the things about shadowrun you dont like were obviously not carefully thought out. I disagree though... I personally rather like the way the rules are in this regard. (I like my astral spying and speedy long distance communication abilities exactly as they are, thank you)

[Kagetenshi]

Then you've clearly never had them used against you.

~J

[Jason Farlander]

[Zephania]

Whoa I'm way behind on this. I always thought you had normal hearing on the astral for sounds that originated on the astral. I believed that everything from the mundane world was represented by emotion...wait till my players hear this, I'm gonna be lynched!

[A Rodent of Unus...]

[Arethusa]

Honestly, with the way it's worded, it could be that. The astral is really not terribly well described and open to tons of interpretation— and, incidentally, yours makes a lot more sense.

[Kagetenshi]

[A Rodent of Unus...]

Which is why you hire a mage or use a trusted one for those purposes. Just because there's no convenient way to do it, that doesn't make it broken or anything else.

Want matrix security? Hire a decker or security sysop.
Want physical security? Hire some bodyguards.
Want astral security? Hire a mage.

It's all the same.

[Arethusa]

Yeah, except that's inherently flawed.

Want matrix security? Learn to deck or avoid computer systems with matrix vulnerabilities.
Want physical security? Learn to fight or learn to avoid fights.
Want astral security? Whoops, you're screwed. Can't counter something you'll never have access to and can never detect.

Besides, who said there are mages you can trust? I can trust a simple machine, but more people means more vectors of insecurity. Your reasoning is deeply fallacious because you regard mages as tools and overlook their existence as individuals.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Well, there are some methods to get astral/magical security without mages being there. Several, actually, although I would presume they are all more costly, especially for a large area, than either physical or matrix security.

[A Rodent of Unus...]