 Ok, now you ticked me off, heading for NORAD, armoed plated badboy in CO |
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 Jun 7 2004, 06:39 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215  |
You know what? I'm used to Bushies calling everyone else crazy and comparing them to murderers. But now you've brought Shadowrun into it, Cutter, and I'm just not cool with that. What exactly is it that makes Kerry supporters THAT PLAY SHADOWRUN just as mentally ill as the guy in the bulldozer? And if it has nothing to do with us playing shadowrun, why did you say it?
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Jun 7 2004, 10:49 PM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 162 Joined: 14-April 04 Member No.: 6,239 |
I think you mistook me. Kerry is pro-gun control. Comment was directed towards gun control pushers that play shadowrun. It wasn't a serious statement, just an elbow nudge at Kerry fans.
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Jun 7 2004, 11:08 PM
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#53
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Are you kidding? As either a sec-guard or a Shadowrunner, I'd want as little lead in the air as possible.
Not to mention that the corps would love gun control. No skin off their nose, they're extraterritorial. ~J |
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Jun 8 2004, 12:04 AM
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#54
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Well, some of them might like it. Others sell guns, body armor, and anti-gun security measures to the general public. They surely want their market to be as large as possible. |
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Jun 8 2004, 12:20 AM
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#55
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's true, Ares wouldn't be thrilled.
WEAPONS WORLD!!! ~J |
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Jun 8 2004, 01:12 AM
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#56
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
So your assertion, then, is that because we play a game in which our characters frequently make use of guns, that we must therefore support the use of guns in real life, and should therefore be against Kerry because of his position regarding gun control, and are therefore insane if we do not base our voting decisions on that single issue? Interesting logic. I'll skip any commentary regarding real-world gun control, Kerry's position on it, my position on it, and the implications that any of this has regarding who I'm voting against in November, and simply point out that, by the same logic, you could say that because we play a game in which our characters frequently murder innocents for money, we must therefore support murdering innocents for money in real life, and should therefore be against both major candidates because neither of them have come out in favor of murder-for-hire, and are therefore insane if we vote for either of them, despite their opposition to murder-for-hire. |
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Jun 8 2004, 01:19 AM
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#57
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I hate it when people discriminate against me just because of what I do for a living…
~J |
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Jun 8 2004, 01:34 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Denver CO, USA Member No.: 112 |
Interesting you should word it that way... |
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Jun 8 2004, 01:56 AM
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#59
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Up the results. When you kill one person it is a crime, when you kill one million it is a statistic. (slight variant of a quote I almost remember that might have been said by Stalin.) |
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Jun 8 2004, 02:03 AM
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#60
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Actually, a lot of people word it that way. Vote for the lesser of two evils means you're voting against the greater evil. Or the person who offends you less. -Siege |
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Jun 8 2004, 02:21 AM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 162 Joined: 14-April 04 Member No.: 6,239 |
Too bad criminals don't respect gun laws. John whether you support gun in real life or not isn't the issue. You think, act and believe how you want. It is after all a free country. You vote how you want, I'm not trying to pull anyone one way or another. Its your rights, give them away if you want to, along with your self-defense. Lords knows the criminals support gun laws, they like thier victims unarmed. Its just interesting to see people support a view then turn around and fantasize about performing the total opposite. The logic your suggesting was not suggested by me and I will not comment on how you rationalized it or came to it in the first place. As you point out people play differently then they live. This goes without saying. However gun control advocates playing SR is like Pentacostals playing Vampire the gathering. Anyway, I didn't start the political talks and have no wish to. People can vote how they want, as its hard enough now days and doing so, regardless of who you vote for, is patriotic. |
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Jun 8 2004, 02:38 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Thing is, criminals DO respect gun laws, out of necessity. If they can't get to the guns easily, most criminals won't try. I mean, unlike shadowrun, most criminals don't think these things out so far in advance. Do you really think that guy who robs a 7-11 would have gotten a gun if the only way to do it was through some shady illegal mastermind contact? No way, if the guy was motivated enough to find one of those contacts, he'd be motivated enough in life not to need to rob a 7-11. Easy proof... check out the murder rates in England vs. the USA. One has strict gun laws, one does not. Is it because criminals in England are simply not as violent? I doubt that. Is it because people in the USA are more primative? I doubt that too. Unless you can see something I'm missing as to why else there's such a big difference...
Anyway, it's besides the point. I fail to see how playing a game in which guns are used to kill people means a person ought to want to see them used to kill people in real life. In shadowrun, I play assassins, gangsters, and blade weilding psychos, but I certainly don't want to be those in real life. If anything, I'd go with the opposite: how can you play a game where everyone has easy access to plenty of weapons, and runs around killing people with them, and then want to make access to weapons easier in real life? Of course, the answer to that is simple: it's a freaking game, not a model of a Utopian society or a clear cut proof of what happens when gun controll laws disappear. JaronK |
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Jun 8 2004, 02:42 AM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
Damn Skippy! |
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Jun 8 2004, 02:53 AM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 162 Joined: 14-April 04 Member No.: 6,239 |
Actually they don't. Most of the gun on the street are stolen and/or used in past crimes. NRA and FBI have both confirmed this. The most used weapon used in murders is a jennings .380, street value of about $80. No self-respecting CCW would carry one of these as they are prone to jams, slide breaks, weak firing pins, and of course exploding chambers. If you use P+ ammo each of these risings even greater. The major use for such a gun is drop gun. In other words they tape the tripper/hammer with surgical tape for prints and drop the gun after a murder. Also England is just as violent just less guns. And you can get one there, its just alot more expensive. Most murder weapons are knives, clubs or numbers of unarmed. Walk the streets of London alone at night if you ever go. I bet there is nearly as many murders there per cap as the US.
Thats not what I'm saying at all. In fact the opposite. I fail to see how people who see the protect use of a firearm in the game fail to see how they are just as vunerable out of game from those that wish them harm. I think if you seen the horrors of Luby's Cafeteria killings in Killeen in 91 first hand you'd see there is a time and a place for an armed civilian. |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:02 AM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Where do you think those guns come from originally? A secret network of underground black market gun makers? A stolen gun is one stolen from someone who bought it legally, usually. And because it's harder to kill someone with a knife, the murder rate in England is FAR lower per capita.
Besides, armed civilians just doesn't help at all. Bringing a gun into a situation always raises the chances of death... it doesn't lower them. Bah, you know what? This isn't the place for this discussion. I'm in favor of stricter gun controll, you're against, and neither one of us has a chance in hell of changing the other's point of view. People who play shadowrun do so because they enjoy the game... it is not a comentary on their political beliefs or wishes for social change. It's just a game. JaronK |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:11 AM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 8-June 03 Member No.: 4,696 |
No need to guess (and especially no need to guess wrong) when there's the internet. I'd say that this discussion was veering off target, but it didn't really start off about SR particularly... |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:13 AM
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#67
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Target Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Reinbek, Germany Member No.: 72 |
Stalins quote was "The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic". And then there is this nice quote from a movie: "If you kill one person, you're a criminal, if you kill millions, you're mighty warlord, if you kill them all, you'll be a god". |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:17 AM
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#68
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
I always loved that line, "criminals don't respect gun laws", as if by not respecting them they are no longer subject to them. In such a world a criminal with no respect for gun laws need only drop by the Firearm Grove and pick a pistol off of a gun tree. The only thing stopping him is a sign stating that you can't have guns, which he need only ignore. Later, when questioned by the police, he simply answers "Yes, it's mine, but I don't respect gun laws. I guess I'll be on my way!". |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:34 AM
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#69
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Looking at recent presidential elections, the only ones that would have gotten me motivated enough to vote were cases of my disliking one of the candidates to a significant degree. I have yet to encounter a candidate that has made me very excited about them in any capacity other than their not being the other candidate. ~J |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:41 AM
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#70
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Heh. Well said. -Siege |
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Jun 8 2004, 03:53 AM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
In case anyone was too lazy to find the UK on that link, the murder rate per capita in England is four times lower.
JaronK |
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Jun 8 2004, 04:01 AM
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#72
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 27-April 04 From: Everywhere, but nowhere. Member No.: 6,286 |
^ The smartest way to use guns is not to use them at all. :| You know, if the civvie folk didn't have access to guns, that's a good excuse to lobby for more funds and training for the local law enforcement. A VERY good excuse.
On a side note: If it comes down to the pinch, I'm for Kerry, because he's untested whereas Bush is too much a chip off the old block for my tastes. |
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Jun 8 2004, 04:11 AM
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#73
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 162 Joined: 14-April 04 Member No.: 6,239 |
<reads Zazen's post> :please: Respect as in if they're going to break a fleony they might as well break two. Criminals that do drive-bys, robberies, dealing drugs, etc don't go into a Wal-mart and fill out the paperwork on a gun. They instead steal one or buy one that is stolen. These types of people don't talk to the police, they shoot at them and/or run like hell.
I stand corrected on England. However Russia, no 5, has gun control,.. it would be interesting to see how many of those murders are with stolen firearms. But think what you want about gun control. You have the right to your opinion as do I. There is no right answer. No right opinion. Only the right to free express what you feel. Thats why I think the Us is still a great place to live. One of the few places you can express your dislike of the government, speak against it in public, and have a choice in who runs it next. I'd rather you vote for Kerry, even if I don't like him, then not vote at all. Use your rights or they will be taken from you. |
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Jun 8 2004, 04:17 AM
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#74
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Two felonies are more effort than one.
~J |
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Jun 8 2004, 04:20 AM
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#75
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
:eek: :-? :eek: You're joking, right? -Siege |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th February 2026 - 10:08 AM |
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