cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 05:34 AM
Phaeton
Jun 5 2004, 05:45 AM
...Holy frelling shit.
...Which also makes me wonder why Barrens gangs don't use more civil utility/construction vehicles as mobile assault fortresses.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 05:54 AM
Luckily no ones got hurt so far that they know of.
While this guy is cracked hes sure planned well for it. Seems like someone would either catch it on fire, gas him, or (my personal favorite) use Thermite.
KillaJ
Jun 5 2004, 05:59 AM
That was pretty fucking amusing. Thanks for the link.
Phaeton
Jun 5 2004, 06:09 AM
Sheesh...Why bother trying to get ahold of milspec-grade hardware when you could cause just as much destruction with some civilian earthmover equipment? Hell, during WW2, the Marines (I think) managed to take out plenty of Japanese armored units at Okinawa just by taking their engineering bulldozers and tipping the Japanese's tanks right over. Amazing what ingenuity and several tons of heavy-duty grinding mobile metal will do.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 06:29 AM
Agreed. Wondering why this nut is the only one in town with a CAT. Surely a couple of equally stout CATs could push him push to a safe area in case he is boobytrapped.
I can hardly wait to see what type of stupid legislation comes of this.
Stand by for the 2005 ABB (Assault Bulldozer Ban).
In addition to banning Caterpillar D-9s outright, all semi-automatic bulldozers with a blade width greater than {fill in blank} will be banned if also equipped with any of the following options:
* Armor plating
* Gun ports
* Cup/propane torch holders
* Fixed or removeable armaments
* Magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.
* Laser guidance systems.
* Night vision devices
FlakJacket
Jun 5 2004, 06:32 AM
Yeah but Japanese tanks were pretty much crap. Even beat out the Italians in those stakes, just.
Arethusa
Jun 5 2004, 06:32 AM
Not when those CATs are unarmored and he has a gun. I sure as hell don't want to try, anyway. Anyway, this is what hapens when you bar civilians from owning assault rifles and M72A2s.
In all seriousness, it really isn't that funny. Just sad, really. At least almost no one's been hurt.
[edit]
Yes, the Japanese tanks were absolutely terrible and outdated, as was much of their ground equipment. The Ha-Go and Chi-Ha were somewhat mobile, but notoriously easy to knock out and rather impotent.
Phaeton
Jun 5 2004, 06:32 AM
QUOTE (cutter07) |
Agreed. Wondering why this nut is the only one in town with a CAT. Surely a couple of equally stout CATs could push him push to a safe area in case he is boobytrapped. |
Better yet, take a Barrett rifle and put a slug into the components of the treads.
Arethusa
Jun 5 2004, 06:35 AM
I assume you mean a .50BMG rifle of any sort, as Barrett makes many types of small arms? Probably wouldn't do a hell of a lot of good. If that were the case, tanks would be ridiculously easy to knock out of commision.
FlakJacket
Jun 5 2004, 06:36 AM
How fast can those things go anyway? I figure all you had to do was break one of the tracks and he's pretty much immobalised.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 06:37 AM
Its only funny because no ones got hurt. This guy could have really killed tons of unsuspecting people but he didn't. I'd rather see 10 of these guys stump the LEOs then 1 Timothy Mcvay kill innocent women and children.
They are currently putting some .50 cal rounds into it, blew most of the propane tanks but the armor is very very thick. They took out his radiator last I heard so he isn't using the engine much or at all. At this point theyre trying to talk him out.
Arethusa
Jun 5 2004, 06:40 AM
I agree, it wouldn't be remotely amusing had innocents gotten hurt, and I really don't mind that lots of property got destroyed. Doesn't mean the situation isn't sad, though.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 06:44 AM
Whats saddest is this guys pissed over losing in court for some zoning issue at this muffler shop. How weak is that? I mean I can understand if you push a guy too far and he cracks but this guy must have went choo-choo for cocopuffs years ago.
I'll give him an A for effort, originality, and stamina. F for reasoning, finish, and lack of chrome.
Arethusa
Jun 5 2004, 06:49 AM
I'd say it's more prudent to withold judgement, considering that there very well could be details that have yet to reach the public. Seems rather unlikely he or anyone else'd go this far for only $2,500 out of his or her muffler shop.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 06:55 AM
Yeah your right. A guy this prepared know he isn't walking away. Hes got some ace in the hole most likely, but hopefully if he uses it alone. Hopefully the local LEOs\mayor will swallow thier pride and ask the Guard to step in before this goes too far.
Connor
Jun 5 2004, 07:05 AM
Is this thing still going on this late? Is there anyone carrying coverage of this? Should I turn on the tv?
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 07:52 AM
CNN isn't covering, nor headlien news. Just news bullets. Not sure why,..
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 07:54 AM
Connor
Jun 5 2004, 07:57 AM
I thought it had been resolved awhile back. It still went on longer than I thought I guess. I suppose that guy could still be holed up in that bulldozer though, since I haven't read anything about him coming out or being verified as dead in there or anything.
[edit]
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/06/05/b...ldozer.rampage/Looks like as of 1am eastern CNN is reporting that the guy is still in there and they haven't tried to open it up yet.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 08:00 AM
QUOTE |
The episode came to an end about 4:30 p.m. Friday, when Heemeyer's self-styled assault vehicle came to a halt in the attack on Gambles Store and was cornered by emergency responders driving a road grader.
It was not immediately known if Heemeyer was still alive inside the vehicle. Unofficial reports said he had welded the vehicle's door shut.
Jim Holahan, director of emergency services for Grand County, said at one point deputies from the sheriff's special response team were on top of the 53.8-ton Caterpillar D9 Bulldozer, firing at Heemeyer through its jury-rigged viewport.
Remarkably, authorities said, no injuries among townspeople were reported in the incident. |
Its 3am CST and the end hasn't been called. Hes got to be in there deep if they haven't pulled him out in 10+ hours.
http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/ar...2939053,00.html
GreatChicken
Jun 5 2004, 08:02 AM
Won't see it in the news until tomorrow, maybe. It wasn't exactly that long a rampage compared to what happened when this guy got a hold of an M60 tank back in 1998....(was on World's Wildest Police Chases)
Biggest problem is that nobody wants to kill the poor insane bugger unless absolutely necessary. As always is the case in such situations, even when they destroyed thousands of dollars worth of property and homes
Connor
Jun 5 2004, 08:03 AM
Yeah, he must be. He's probably killed himself if he isn't talking. Fox News has on their website article that they've tried on three occasions to blow the door open on the thing too.
Craziness...
Shrike30
Jun 5 2004, 08:38 AM
They could always just fire tear gas at it until he gives up. A few hours exposed to that stuff will make anyone unhappy.
My bet is either suicide or a lucky police shot entering the viewslits and hitting him. He may actually be alive (in the second scenario) but wounded/unconcious.
Don't blame them for not wanting to get close, though.
Arethusa
Jun 5 2004, 08:42 AM
QUOTE (GreatChicken) |
Biggest problem is that nobody wants to kill the poor insane bugger unless absolutely necessary. As always is the case in such situations, even when they destroyed thousands of dollars worth of property and homes |
Right. Because, clearly, property eventually adds up to be worth more than a human life.
KillaJ
Jun 5 2004, 08:54 AM
QUOTE (Arethusa) |
Right. Because, clearly, property eventually adds up to be worth more than a human life. |
There are over six billion people in the world, god only knows how many of them die every day, many of those without ever having done anything to hurt anyone else. If some crazy bastard ran my house over with a bulldozer he had deliberately converted into some makeshift tank I could sleep well at night after putting a bullet in his miserable ass.
Connor
Jun 5 2004, 09:08 AM
Well, in the reports I've read one of the Sheriff deputies was at one point on the bulldozer as the guy was driving it firing his gun through one of the view ports. I've read he fired multiple clips. So, obviously they weren't trying to keep him alive if they could stop him some other way.
Thistledown
Jun 5 2004, 09:22 AM
This is what Patlabors are for. The entire premise of the show is around police vehicles designed for stopping construction vehicles.
This kind of thing is a lot like what I designed GarbageMan's truck to be able to do. See the latest 'quick question' thread for more details.
On a side note, I've heard that after WW1, they'd drive the tanks through a building to take it down. Thought that was a cool use in peace-time.
KillaJ
Jun 5 2004, 09:25 AM
Not to mention a morale booster for bored soldiers!
Edit- Upon careful consideration I believe that the paragraph that previously occupied this space may have been in violation of certain OPSEC documents that I have signed and in the interest of not endangering our brave service members at home and abroad it has been removed. God bless America.
Joker9125
Jun 5 2004, 09:56 AM
You know what would be funny as hell? If he had the set up on remote and was controling it with a camera and a remote control from like 5 miles away. Lol I can see the headlines now "police are baffled as to how the man escaped."
News Reporter: "So Officer Jo have you apprehended the suspect?"
Officer Jo: "Its the wierdest thing. We got inside and their was no one their, he musta escaped but I dunno how. All we found was a camera and this little electronic box with some antennia do-hicky. Maybe its a CB?"
LMAO!
Xirces
Jun 5 2004, 10:16 AM
Be funnier if there was a life-like mannequin in there (or the Airplane! automatic pilot which for some reason I just had a mental image of)
On the other hand that story is just sad. It's kinda hard not to feel some sympathy for the guy... until one actually realises WTF he's done.
JaronK
Jun 5 2004, 10:19 AM
Heh, yeah, can you imagine a blow up autopilot in that thing?
JaronK
Mr. Man
Jun 5 2004, 05:06 PM
QUOTE (FlakJacket) |
How fast can those things go anyway? |
Transmission
1 Forward 3.9 kph / 2.4 mph
2 Forward 6.8 kph / 4.2 mph
3 Forward 11.9 kph / 7.4 mph
1 Reverse 4.8 kph / 3 mph
2 Reverse 8.4 kph / 5.2 mph
3 Reverse 14.7 kph / 9.1 mph
I got that from
the Fark thread.
The latest
Fox story confirms that the guy punched his own ticket. It also has some new pics of and details about the vehicle.
Solstice
Jun 5 2004, 05:56 PM
QUOTE (cutter07) |
CNN isn't covering, nor headlien news. Just news bullets. Not sure why,.. |
They don't have any way to blame this one on Bush so they are obviously ignoring it.
cutter07
Jun 5 2004, 08:40 PM
QUOTE |
They don't have any way to blame this one on Bush so they are obviously ignoring it. |
No doubt, surprised Kerry isn't there getting face time and pushing gun control.
Anyway the nuts dead. he shot himself in the head. Took 3 attempts with charges for them to open it up.
from CNN:
The first two explosive devices were "completely ineffective" at penetrating the armored bulldozer, Dailey said.
"The machine had a half-inch steel plate with a layer of concrete, and another steel plate," he said. "On the front of the machine, there were two rifles mounted where he could shoot straight ahead."
Solstice
Jun 6 2004, 12:14 AM
QUOTE (cutter07) |
QUOTE | They don't have any way to blame this one on Bush so they are obviously ignoring it. |
No doubt, surprised Kerry isn't there getting face time and pushing gun control.
Anyway the nuts dead. he shot himself in the head. Took 3 attempts with charges for them to open it up.
from CNN:
The first two explosive devices were "completely ineffective" at penetrating the armored bulldozer, Dailey said.
"The machine had a half-inch steel plate with a layer of concrete, and another steel plate," he said. "On the front of the machine, there were two rifles mounted where he could shoot straight ahead."
|
The man clearly had no regard for human life and/or property. Clearly in those instances we still have this naive belief that they should somehow be "subdued" and "rehabilitated". At least he capped himself and no public servant was injured/killed while trying to non-violently stop him on orders from some pantywaist paper pusher whose ass isn't in the line of fire.
CircuitBoyBlue
Jun 6 2004, 12:30 AM
QUOTE (cutter07) |
QUOTE | They don't have any way to blame this one on Bush so they are obviously ignoring it. |
No doubt, surprised Kerry isn't there getting face time and pushing gun control.
Anyway the nuts dead. he shot himself in the head. Took 3 attempts with charges for them to open it up.
from CNN:
The first two explosive devices were "completely ineffective" at penetrating the armored bulldozer, Dailey said.
"The machine had a half-inch steel plate with a layer of concrete, and another steel plate," he said. "On the front of the machine, there were two rifles mounted where he could shoot straight ahead."
|
Yes, obviously CNN has a liberal bias. And FOX is truly fair and balanced, I'm sure.
CNN looks biased for the left if you're way out on the right, just like it looks balanced for the right if you're way out on the left. At the end of the day, I don't think it's biased journalism, it's just crappy journalism. The myth of a liberal media is just a holdover from the days of McCarthyism that hasn't been dispelled yet because the media's too afraid to stand up to conservatives that make idiotic remarks, exactly the same reason so many people named names in the fifties. And I think that history will remember the Bill O'Reillys of the world about as fondly as it remembers the Joe McCarthys and Roy Cohns.
Bob the Ninja
Jun 6 2004, 01:40 AM
My Aunt lives in a nearby town, like 40 miles from this nut's place. I think that it's a sad tale of a man that just snapped after he perceived the town screwing him.
Let's not make too many tjokes on this; it's in really poor taste.
JaronK
Jun 6 2004, 02:02 AM
We have no idea if this guy had respect for human life or not... he didn't kill anyone, and seemed to be only targetting property. I'm not condoning his actions, but let's not make snap judgements about his life because he snapped, if that makes sense.
JaronK
Phaeton
Jun 6 2004, 02:30 AM
I personally think it's the stress of the times. If it weren't for summer being in session right now, I dunno what I'd do...
Arethusa
Jun 6 2004, 03:46 AM
QUOTE (JaronK) |
We have no idea if this guy had respect for human life or not... he didn't kill anyone, and seemed to be only targetting property. I'm not condoning his actions, but let's not make snap judgements about his life because he snapped, if that makes sense.
JaronK |
I completely agree. I find it very obnoxious that people want to make judgements about the worthiness of his life or his sanity. Certainly, what he did was not acceptable, but that doesn't make the situation any less sad nor the cowboys who want to shoot him because they can any less wrong. Until there's more information, I'd say it's wisest to not jump to conclusions about what an awful, crazy man he must've been.
GreatChicken
Jun 6 2004, 04:05 AM
If the guy had any respect whatsoever for human lives, he would have been the one who would warn the peds in his way, not the police. Even a loudhailer mounted would be good enough...he definitely isn't on a stealth job anyway, so no loss. Clearly, he had no qualms about plowing through his targeted buildings even if there was someone inside. At least he didn't run over any homes.
Hell, he doesn't even want to face the music for his actions.
Yeah, I know the local mayor might have antagonized him first, but who was the one that resorted to violence?
Edit: Ethics is one heckuva mind blowing subject.
Solstice
Jun 6 2004, 05:04 PM
QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue) |
QUOTE (cutter07 @ Jun 5 2004, 03:40 PM) | QUOTE | They don't have any way to blame this one on Bush so they are obviously ignoring it. |
No doubt, surprised Kerry isn't there getting face time and pushing gun control.
Anyway the nuts dead. he shot himself in the head. Took 3 attempts with charges for them to open it up.
from CNN:
The first two explosive devices were "completely ineffective" at penetrating the armored bulldozer, Dailey said.
"The machine had a half-inch steel plate with a layer of concrete, and another steel plate," he said. "On the front of the machine, there were two rifles mounted where he could shoot straight ahead."
|
Yes, obviously CNN has a liberal bias. And FOX is truly fair and balanced, I'm sure.
CNN looks biased for the left if you're way out on the right, just like it looks balanced for the right if you're way out on the left. At the end of the day, I don't think it's biased journalism, it's just crappy journalism. The myth of a liberal media is just a holdover from the days of McCarthyism that hasn't been dispelled yet because the media's too afraid to stand up to conservatives that make idiotic remarks, exactly the same reason so many people named names in the fifties. And I think that history will remember the Bill O'Reillys of the world about as fondly as it remembers the Joe McCarthys and Roy Cohns.
|
Every aspect of the media screams liberal-bias. It's painfully obvious. I can even detect bias in the little 10 min. AM radio broadcasts every hour. It's rediculous what kind of bias they show in terms of what stories get how much time and often they won't even touch stories that don't fit their agenda. It should be a crime. Oh well I learned many years ago not to listen to the garbage on the news anyway.
Zazen
Jun 6 2004, 06:45 PM
QUOTE (Solstice) |
Every aspect of the media screams liberal-bias. It's painfully obvious. I can even detect bias in the little 10 min. AM radio broadcasts every hour. It's rediculous what kind of bias they show in terms of what stories get how much time and often they won't even touch stories that don't fit their agenda. It should be a crime. Oh well I learned many years ago not to listen to the garbage on the news anyway. |
Are you joking?
Where I live I'm flooded with sensationalist conservative news written at a 7th grade level, like FOX "News" or the New York Post. People really dig it because real newspapers are too hard to read and the Post always tells you who the Bad Guy is. It's disgusting.
CircuitBoyBlue
Jun 6 2004, 10:26 PM
In addition, respectable media outlets are forced by "free" market constraints to adopt the same anti-left sensationalist tactics in order to compete with an ever-dwindling public attention span fueled by a failing education system under attack by right-wing extremists.
Siege
Jun 7 2004, 04:11 AM
And to think, I had almost forgotten why the Forum was closed.
-Siege
Kagetenshi
Jun 7 2004, 04:48 AM
QUOTE (Solstice) |
they won't even touch stories that don't fit their agenda |
It's true. That's why we never heard that Bush was asking to reinstate the US chemical weapons program on the big news outlets.
Movies and soforth have a liberal bias most of the time. NPR arguably has a slight liberal bias. Otherwise, the press is usually pretty conservative unless they've got some good blood in the water that they can attack from the liberal direction.
Meanwhile, a ban on certain construction equipment would be possible with the Urban Renewal spell. Too bad it vanished.
~J
cutter07
Jun 7 2004, 06:18 AM
QUOTE |
The man clearly had no regard for human life and/or property. |
Actually the man had a huge regard for life as in several cases he went out of his way not to kill anyone. Everyone on the scene said if the guy wanted to kill people he'd easily been successful. Besides any guy that can do that much welding work on that big a Cat without someone knowing could have just as easily made a fert bomb such as in Oklahoma city.
BTW whether the media is playing favorites or not, anyone would plays SR but supports Kerry and/or this runs Democrats is a just as nutty as the dozer guy. Not saying all Democrats are bad but this year,..

QUOTE |
he definitely isn't on a stealth job anyway, so no loss. |
Player to GM "I want to sneak my D-9 w/ nutjob armor pack upgrade and hardpoints past those 2 cops, that diner full of patrons, and that cement fatory."
Gm to player "....

"
Player to GM " so whats my target number?"
Gm to player ".... uguh"
Player to GM "no, really"
GreatChicken
Jun 7 2004, 06:30 AM
^ Passive Masking Mods to the rescue~!

Edit: PS - I don't support any current candidates. I happen to miss the Clinton days. Rather a playboy foregin relations advocate than a hardline 'whack'em all, let God sort em out' character.
Kagetenshi
Jun 7 2004, 06:30 AM
QUOTE (cutter07) |
BTW whether the media is playing favorites or not, anyone would plays SR but supports Kerry and/or this runs Democrats is a just as nutty as the dozer guy. Not saying all Democrats are bad but this year,.. |
Funny, you've just summed up my opinion on anyone who would consider voting Bush 2004. It's clear that we both take things as basic common sense, and that the things we take as basic common sense are completely different. Being as we're not here for political debates, shall we stop the political observations, as obvious as they may seem to you?
~J
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