You know what? I'm used to Bushies calling everyone else crazy and comparing them to murderers. But now you've brought Shadowrun into it, Cutter, and I'm just not cool with that. What exactly is it that makes Kerry supporters THAT PLAY SHADOWRUN just as mentally ill as the guy in the bulldozer? And if it has nothing to do with us playing shadowrun, why did you say it?

I think you mistook me. Kerry is pro-gun control. Comment was directed towards gun control pushers that play shadowrun. It wasn't a serious statement, just an elbow nudge at Kerry fans.

Are you kidding? As either a sec-guard or a Shadowrunner, I'd want as little lead in the air as possible.

Not to mention that the corps would love gun control. No skin off their nose, they're extraterritorial.

~J

That's true, Ares wouldn't be thrilled.

WEAPONS WORLD!!!

~J

I hate it when people discriminate against me just because of what I do for a living…

~J

Thing is, criminals DO respect gun laws, out of necessity. If they can't get to the guns easily, most criminals won't try. I mean, unlike shadowrun, most criminals don't think these things out so far in advance. Do you really think that guy who robs a 7-11 would have gotten a gun if the only way to do it was through some shady illegal mastermind contact? No way, if the guy was motivated enough to find one of those contacts, he'd be motivated enough in life not to need to rob a 7-11. Easy proof... check out the murder rates in England vs. the USA. One has strict gun laws, one does not. Is it because criminals in England are simply not as violent? I doubt that. Is it because people in the USA are more primative? I doubt that too. Unless you can see something I'm missing as to why else there's such a big difference...

Anyway, it's besides the point. I fail to see how playing a game in which guns are used to kill people means a person ought to want to see them used to kill people in real life. In shadowrun, I play assassins, gangsters, and blade weilding psychos, but I certainly don't want to be those in real life. If anything, I'd go with the opposite: how can you play a game where everyone has easy access to plenty of weapons, and runs around killing people with them, and then want to make access to weapons easier in real life?

Of course, the answer to that is simple: it's a freaking game, not a model of a Utopian society or a clear cut proof of what happens when gun controll laws disappear.

JaronK

Where do you think those guns come from originally? A secret network of underground black market gun makers? A stolen gun is one stolen from someone who bought it legally, usually. And because it's harder to kill someone with a knife, the murder rate in England is FAR lower per capita.

Besides, armed civilians just doesn't help at all. Bringing a gun into a situation always raises the chances of death... it doesn't lower them.

Bah, you know what? This isn't the place for this discussion. I'm in favor of stricter gun controll, you're against, and neither one of us has a chance in hell of changing the other's point of view. People who play shadowrun do so because they enjoy the game... it is not a comentary on their political beliefs or wishes for social change. It's just a game.

JaronK

In case anyone was too lazy to find the UK on that link, the murder rate per capita in England is four times lower.

JaronK

^ The smartest way to use guns is not to use them at all. You know, if the civvie folk didn't have access to guns, that's a good excuse to lobby for more funds and training for the local law enforcement. A VERY good excuse.

On a side note: If it comes down to the pinch, I'm for Kerry, because he's untested whereas Bush is too much a chip off the old block for my tastes.

<reads Zazen's post>

Respect as in if they're going to break a fleony they might as well break two. Criminals that do drive-bys, robberies, dealing drugs, etc don't go into a Wal-mart and fill out the paperwork on a gun. They instead steal one or buy one that is stolen. These types of people don't talk to the police, they shoot at them and/or run like hell.

Two felonies are more effort than one.

~J

Yes and no, actually. You figure it out.

{deleted}
I'm not getting into this.

http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/Interna...l/BritvsUSA.htm

And if you are a sheep and listen to the mass media why you believe gun ownership is a bad thing:

http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/Interna...l/BritvsUSA.htm

Russia is a poor comparison, because the standard of living and other conditions are very different. The best evidence would be to find a very similar country, where the main difference is different gun laws, which was why I chose England.

And you have to defend your rights, but that doesn't mean use them. Now I am a firm believer in the constitution, and if any candidate jumped out and said "all guns must go" I'd be very much against him... I just believe in making it as hard as possible for criminals to get access to guns. If that makes it rather annoying for other people as well, that's fine, as long as it's still possible for them to do it. I'd rather have 10 annoyed people than one murdered one. Criminals are, unlike in the movies, not generally masterminds. More often they're the sort of people who can't fit in to normal society, and are looking for the easy way. If you make crime hard, a lot of criminals just give up.

JaronK

Well, yes, but it was the closest I could think of.

JaronK

Actually I think its fairly difficult top commit just a single felony during a crime.

Considering many crimes such as the one in St Louis a few months ago where they caught that serial rapist. Before they even pegged him for the other rapes they had him on possession of stolen property (the firearm), discharging of a firearm, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, kidnapping, attempted sexual assault, unlawful transport of firearm, and a string of other that escape me.

Even if they busted him before he started the first driving around with a stolen firearm is 3 offenses.

That said if your going to be a criminal, be a smart one.

And a dikoted Ares Viper Slivergun ally spirit dos not count.

~J

But a bound spirit can not legally give consent.

BTW if this doesn't prove CCN is pro-blue I don't know what would.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/08/...r.ap/index.html

If the Reps are Red and the Dems are Blue, who are the Whites?

~J

They're soon to be defeated and forgotten. Just like the first time.

Or, I guess, if you want to stick to American history jokes, they're the.. Know Nothings?

Heh, seriously.

JaronK

Actually, the person who wrote the story apparently saw fit not to interview anyone connected with the site, whereas they DID interview a Republican about it. I think an unbiased column would have a) given the creators of the site a chance to justify the cartoon and answer questions and b) gotten a more level-headed Republican to give the other side of the story. I don't like Republicans generally, but I will say that most of them, especially the ones used to speaking for the party, know better than to make snide remarks like "They'll try anything right now" or whatever it was that he said in a story that could very easily be turned into an opportunity to make Democrats look petty. I think that was an opportunity missed by the particular republican they interviewed for this one.