rattan stick and claymore - Dumpshock Forums

rattan stick and claymore, a question about the cannon companion

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Wounded Ronin

Jun 6 2004, 10:46 PM

Post #26

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Cochise)

QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)

I'd much rather get clocked with a bokken than with rattan sticks. Have you ever been hit on the head by rattan sticks? They REALLY, REALLY **HURT**!

Of course it hurts ... But I would most definitely not chose a hit with a rattan stick over a hit with a bokken ...
Or why do you think that Kendo practitioners wear that rather strong body armor and that helmet?
A bokken can easily be used to kill people. Even good old Musashi did some of his recorded duels with bokken and killed his oppenents

QUOTE

S stun is entirely appropriate for representing a flurry of strikes from rattan sticks.

I'd rather go with M ... but then again ... SR has several weapons and gimmicks that portray supernatural statistics and for a RPG that still has the "Fantasy"-touch that's perfectly fine with me ...

Well, I believe that in sanctioned full contact stickfighting tournaments in the phillipines the contestants also wear heavy padding.

See, this is the thing about a bokken. A bokken can break my bones if it hits me hard but it won't *hurt* as much as a rapid flaying with rattan sticks. If I'm unarmed, I am more likely to be able to take a solid bone-cracking hit from a bokken but keep fighting than I am if I take a flurry of excruciating skin-splitting strikes from ratan sticks.

Furthermore, because of its length and weight a bokken is a bit easier to deal with in terms of defense and avoidance than a shorter lighter bludgeon. Furthermore, whereas a bokken would be pretty akward to use in the clinch, escrimadors have a few tricks for clinch range with their rattan sticks including stick chokes, stick-assisted joint locks, and butt-slams to the face. Lastly, becuse the escrima sticks are so light and fast and the bokken requires 2 hands and is big and heavy, it would be much easier to entangle or disarm the bokken than it would be to entangle or disarm the escrima sticks. If I had the choice between having to fight an escrimador with 2 escrima sticks or a kenjutsu guy with 1 bokken, I'd much rather go unarmed against the kenjutsu guy.

The bokken may be more likely to break bones and cause deep bruising but its a lot easier to deal with for the unarmed defender than rattan sticks which are going to be moving much faster and which are more dangerous at clinch range.

I guess if I wanted to translate that into physical terms I'd give the bokken something like STR+3 L physical and I'd keep the ratan sticks with the S stun after the flechette upgrade.

Kagetenshi

Jun 6 2004, 11:03 PM

Post #27

Manus Celer Dei

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QUOTE (Cochise)

Or why do you think that Kendo practitioners wear that rather strong body armor and that helmet?

Not for any reason even remotely connected to a bokkan. Bokkan are used for prearranged drills only, never for sparring. They wear the bogu to protect against the shinai, which are deliberately designed to hurt as little as possible and can still, in expert hands, deal out quite a bit of pain and death.

~J

Crusher Bob

Jun 7 2004, 01:56 AM

Post #28

Runner

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QUOTE (Siege)

Similar, in some respects, to the Japanese banzai or Rebel yell.

It was a self-inspired emotional state that enabled the person to achieve said feats. In the case of the Moros, it was a religious frenzy.

Insofar as I am aware, there has been no definitive study linking it to physiological disorder (per se).

-Siege

It appears in the DSM, that makes it a mental disorder :rotfl:

Connor

Jun 7 2004, 03:41 AM

Post #29

Moving Target

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QUOTE (gfen)

Conner: I just recently saw this very show, within the few months or so. Its funny, becuase I have yet to be able to find anything else even remotely related to it since then, but I've been trying to explain it to a coworker.

It was actually pretty interesting, as I saw it they did quite a few very clever things with their swords, but the biggest sticking point is I swear I remember watching them even use it revesed to treat the grip (nerds need to spring to point out the correct terminology here, cause I don't care) like a smashing hammer.

Am I completely out of it, or was this part of the methods they used?

That is EXACTLY the same thing I saw. Do you remember the name of the show/episode? I'd love to get a dvd of it if they offer one...

LaughingTiger

Jun 7 2004, 03:56 AM

Post #30

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Beast of Revolutions)

The Katana does more damage because it is sharper than European-style swords. A stroke from a katana could cut an armored samurai in half, cutting right through armor and bone. A western sword could cut through armor, and into flesh, but would generally halt once it reached bone.

For starters, there's an entirely different style of cutting with a katana than with a European sword. A Katana is pulled, a sword is pushed, so you end up with different cuts, but no less damage.

A European sword was used much like a sharpened baseball bat. It didn't cut bone, it shattered it. Moreover, most katana could not cut through laquered armor as easily as you seem to make it sound, otherwise, why wear armor at all? Swordsman practice on tamashigira bundles, rice straw wrapped around bamboo and soaked. While a katana in most cases would make a cleaner cut, a European sword would just as easily maul the bundle, splintering the bamboo. It's the same level of damage, just different ways of inflicting it. That's why I don't understand the damage difference inherent in the rules. Mauled or sliced, still dead.

Cain View Member Profile	Jun 7 2004, 04:36 AM Post #31
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178	I've been clocked by them all. A bokken across the forearms (owch!), a shinai to the chest (the tip fell off, leaving shallow puncture wounds and bamboo spinters!) and rattan sticks to the head (two minutes spent wondering when the sky became green and fuzzy). Now, these situations aren't perfect comparisons by a long shot, but those Escrima sticks can deal out a lot of damage in short order.

Cochise

Jun 7 2004, 07:23 AM

Post #32

Mr. Quote-function

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QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)

See, this is the thing about a bokken. A bokken can break my bones if it hits me hard but it won't *hurt* as much as a rapid flaying with rattan sticks.

I guess that depends on individual pain perception. The broken bones I had so far did *hurt* a lot, because they weren't simple fractures but always included splittering and / or open wounds to a certain extend.
There was only one thing that *hurt* even more and left me with the wish to die ... and that had something to do with kidney stones ...

QUOTE

Furthermore, because of its length and weight a bokken is a bit easier to deal with in terms of defense and avoidance than a shorter lighter bludgeon.

Which wasn't the thing I was talking about ;)
I still wouldn't prefer an actual hit with a bokken over a hit with rattan sticks ...

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jun 7 2004, 07:32 AM Post #33
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	I'd certainly prefer a single thwack from an escrima stick to a single strike from a bokkan. That starts getting reversed once we start talking about one to three seconds worth of strikes from each. ~J

Siege

Jun 7 2004, 12:03 PM

Post #34

Dragon

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QUOTE (Crusher Bob)

QUOTE (Siege @ Jun 7 2004, 03:03 AM)

Similar, in some respects, to the Japanese banzai or Rebel yell.

It was a self-inspired emotional state that enabled the person to achieve said feats. In the case of the Moros, it was a religious frenzy.

Insofar as I am aware, there has been no definitive study linking it to physiological disorder (per se).

-Siege

It appears in the DSM, that makes it a mental disorder :rotfl:

I'll have to look that up -- I was under the impression that if a patient could enter the state voluntarily, it wasn't a disorder per se.

Interesting.

-Siege

Crusher Bob View Member Profile	Jun 7 2004, 12:09 PM Post #35
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253	It was added with the DSM-IV under culture-{something}-syndromes... [edit] I'll had that the DSM can be a great help for character creation since it can tell you how to be 'properly crazy' rather that hollywood crazy. [/edit]

Siege

Jun 7 2004, 12:10 PM

Post #36

Dragon

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QUOTE (Crusher Bob)

It was added with the DSM-IV under culture-{something}-syndromes...

I wonder if they've done a similar study for the nuts who paint their bellies and dance in sub-zero weather at Football games. :grinbig:

-Siege

Nikoli View Member Profile	Jun 7 2004, 12:59 PM Post #37
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033	Getting back tot he Claymore, I've had the opportunity to wield one of these fine weapons. (The Highland games can be so educational) I'm by no means a Troll, nor above average in strength, hell I'd be pressed to claim average strength. I can wield a Claymore, properly balanced, one handed. The blade is as balanced with the hilt as any decent sword you can imagine. It felt light and was easy to move. Actually, I think the guy giving the demonstration was surprised I had little trouble.

danbot37 View Member Profile	Jun 9 2004, 04:06 AM Post #38
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,137	you have to remember how abstract melee rules for SR are. the serious stun from a rattan stick wouldn't be from one hit, but a quick successive beating like a drum roll. A bokken would be a single hit. I've been hit with a bokken, and yes, it hurt. A rattan, though, I imagine would be like several quick slaps, almost like from a small whip. I've seen it used (not on a real person), but the rat-a-tat-tat sound didn't sound pleasant.

Wounded Ronin View Member Profile	Jun 9 2004, 04:11 AM Post #39
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383	For years I've wanted to make some house rules that would make hand to hand combat more realistic. But every time I sit down to make something I realize that I've taken upon myself a nearly sisyphisusian task and give up after maybe an hour of thought. The basic difficulty comes from the dichotomy between stun damage and physical damage. If I break someone's arm with juji gatame and then break his other arm with the same technique, the guy is pretty much incapacitated, right? But he's not unconscious. Should he have stun damage or physical damage? If you say physical damage, that gets more complicated because Unarmed Combat is only supposed to do stun damage for emptyhand attacks. Furthermore, if a freaking mace only does stun damage, surely emptyhand should never do physical, right?

Luke Hardison

Jun 9 2004, 01:14 PM

Post #40

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)

For years I've wanted to make some house rules that would make hand to hand combat more realistic. But every time I sit down to make something I realize that I've taken upon myself a nearly sisyphisusian task and give up after maybe an hour of thought.

The basic difficulty comes from the dichotomy between stun damage and physical damage. If I break someone's arm with juji gatame and then break his other arm with the same technique, the guy is pretty much incapacitated, right? But he's not unconscious. Should he have stun damage or physical damage?

If you say physical damage, that gets more complicated because Unarmed Combat is only supposed to do stun damage for emptyhand attacks. Furthermore, if a freaking mace only does stun damage, surely emptyhand should never do physical, right?

I would have sworn that there was a section in either M&M or CC that added "Cause a wound effect" to the table of what you can do with a called shot, which would handle the situation you're talking about, but for the life of me I can't find it in either book. Does anyone remember what I'm talking about, or am I totally up in the air?

Madda_Gaska View Member Profile	Jun 9 2004, 02:26 PM Post #41
Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 11-March 03 Member No.: 4,238	CC- Page 92: Combat maneuver Vicious Blow (Synopsis: +1 to TN, deal physical damage.) Assuming you have chosen a style which allows you to take weapon maneuvers, I would've guessed that breaking someone's arm is fairly vicious. CC- Page 86 (Called shots in close combat) Synopsis: Same rules followed as for ranged called shots (BBB- Page 114): Increase TN by 4 then either: Increase damage level by 1 Hit a specific part of a vehicle sized target (e.g. wheel) M&M- Page 126 discusses wound effects, but I can't find any reference to called shots affecting those (of course, a GM may rule that if you suffer stress after a called shot to the throat, your voice modulator is stuck in a loud Maria Mercurial voice- but it's not canon). (Edited for Called shots/wound effects comment)

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