Dikote and Weapon Foci, What do you think? Options

[Raife]

One of my players was asking about Dikote for a weapon focus. We looked through the books but couldn't spot anything about what temperature Oricalcum melts at, ect.

In my mind, dikote would not work on a weapon focus for two reasons. First the temperatures required to dikote a weapon focus would burn/melt the handle, thus destroying the magic properties of the weapon. Dikoting the blade before hand would leave it out of the enchanting process, thus preventing it from being magical as well.

If steps could be taken to prevent the problems I see above, dikote would basically cover the entire weapon, which in my book is like a really thin sheath. I don't know if that also gives the weapon focus a problem, but I would guess it does.

However I am not adverse to letting a player dikote a weapon focus. I do want to stall him long enough to find a plausible reason it would work, and then weave it into the story some how.

What do you guys think about Dikote on a weapon focus? Am I totally off base on how difficult it would be to do? Is there a spot in the books that discusses this and I just missed it?

[JaronK]

The truth is, Dikote wouldn't work on a number of weapons. Katanas, for example, would lose their precision folded metals. It's one of those mystical "don't worry they know how to do it" things in the game that probably shouldn't work, yet does anyway.

JaronK

[Luke Hardison]

It seems like you have one of two common misconceptions about foci (but correct me if I'm wrong)

Misconception 1: A weapon or other foci must be made entirely of Orichalcum. Actually, MitS only states that a focus must contain Orichalcum. You don't need very much, and that could easily be added to a weapon after the dikoting process. I think the amount is 10 grams, plus 10 per unit of length required. That's a max of 30 grams (think 30 Orichalcum paper clips) for a pole arm. Not much.

Misconception 2: The user must be touching the Orichalcum. Nope, it just has to be part of the whole. The blade could be entirely Orichalcum, or only the 20 grams necessary for a sword, all located in the crossguard, or pommel, or nestled around the tang under the handle.

In short, there's no reason to disallow dikoting of weapon foci for mechanics reasons. If you choose to disallow it for balance reasons, that's your call, of course. My suggestion, before trying that, would be my own personal house rule, where dikote adds +2 power to anything it coats, edged or not, and does not add damage levels in any case. But, again, that's the realm of house rules and is entirely your call.

[Herald of Verjig...]

The enchanting rules don't keep the need for orichalcum in weapon foci. At least if it is counted, it's in the base price and adding addition orichalcum has the normal benefit.

As for dikote, there are two options that I allow.
1) dikote before enchanting: higher enchanting TN, full benefits
2) dikote after enchanting: the weapon focus still provides the dice bonus but until the dikote layer is removed it will not have the special properties about damage

[Cray74]

[mfb]

indeed. it's easier to make a focus (of any type) when you use virgin telesma, such as cray74's hilarious examples above, but it's definitely not necessary. hell, the virgin telesma doesn't even have to be a part of the focus, when you're finished--the telesma might be consumed as part of the enchanting process in other ways. maybe your corn-fed wood is used to make an athame for gather mana in the correct patterns, or whatever; when you're done, the wood becomes inert and non-telesma.

[Capt. Dave]

Just add the dikoting as you enchant it. Make it part of the focus design formula. Boom.
Hell, use a chemistry facility and enchanting shop to make dikote radicals,
but that may be going too far, however.

[Bearclaw]

In my campaign, I ruled that dikoting a focus is like bronzing your gold ring. You get something bronze, until you scrape the bronze off.
If you dikote a katana weapon focus, you get a katana that does Str+4 S damage, and has no magical properties. I ruled that it's a complete diamond sheath around the focus, and it blocks all magical properties (which does have advantages). I can't back it up with any canon, but I like it.
My plan B is that you destroy the magical properties in the furnace, and it's just a katana now.
If you dikote a katana that will one day be a weapon focus, I have no problem. But it raises your base TN from 5 (low tech items) to 8 (high tech alloy). And you still get your Str+4 S damage, plus all those extra dice.

Also, the ENTIRE focus must be MADE OF virgin talesma to get the bonus. Talesma is not an ingredient, it's all the ingredients.
The item to be enchanted is the material basis or form of the focus, or telesma
Magic in the Shadows, pg 43.

[Bob the Ninja]

[Bearclaw]

[Jason Farlander]

Meh.

If you Dikote™ the weapon focus after enchantment, the damage bonus from the Dikote™ does not carry over to astral combat. If you Dikote™ the weapon prior to its enchantment, it does. Weapon foci are sufficiently pain-in-the-assive to acquire that I dont feel any real need to make them gimpy.

[tjn]

[Raife]

I always assumed that deconstructing a weapon focus (ie removing the handle) would destroy the magical properties.

I guess my misconception about the enchanting process was that enchanting happened WHILE the weapon was being forged, but I have read over it and I do indeed see that the weapon is forged and then later enchanted, the trace amounts of oricalcum in the weapon absorb the magic.

This would make enchanting a blade that is already dikoted possible. I do believe that coating a weapon focus AFTER the fact would cause its magical properties to be "supressed" underneath an ultra-think diamond sheath.

This makes a lot of sense to me now.

[Cray74]

[Glyph]

If a player wanted a dikoted weapon focus at char-gen, I would probably simply have him add the cost of the dikote treatment to the cost of the weapon focus. If a player wanted a dikoted weapon focus after char-gen, it would probably cost somewhat more due to the higher Target Numbers. It would not be unfeasible or even unusual, though, since the books talk about enchanting things like digital watches and credsticks.


It is more of a GM's call whether dikoting a weapon focus after enchantment would ruin the enchantment. On the one hand, altering the weapon focus too much from its original form should ruin the enchantment. On the other hand, weapon foci are (I assume) susceptible to the same nicks and dings as any other weapon, and need occasional repair, sharpening, etc. So would that ruin the enchantment?

Personally, I would allow it, since it is a coating treatment that wears off eventually and needs replacing (in other words, a foci enchanted with dikote would still need a post-enchantment touch-up eventually). It's not like replacing the blade or sticking it on the end of a pole. It's really up to the individual GM, though.

[mfb]

the whole suppression thing makes no sense to me. i mean, if that's true, what happens if you accidentally dunk your sword in a vat of that quick-hardening chocolate goop that goes on ice cream cones? does it suddenly lose all its magic powers until you lick off the delicious candy coating? more importantly, where in the world does it talk about anything like this happening in the rules?

[Raife]

The "coating" issue of chocolate vs diamond is different.

Chocolate would break off as the weapon HIT THE PERSON, thus letting the weapon underneath hit them too.

Put a weapon in its scabbard and your hitting them with a stick, not the weapon. Your hitting them with dikote, not the weapon. Chocolate is a a problematic example, cus it breaks.

[Person 404]

Problematic, but delicious.

[Kagetenshi]

[tjn]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Raife]

Don't think of dikote like a coating... think of it like a sheath. A sheath is a leather or wooden covering for a sword. If you character put a magic orange in a sock, it's not a magic sock, its a magic orange in a sock.

It would still hurt if you hit someone with it, but it wouldnt do magic orange damage to a critter, it would do sock damage.

In the dikote example the weapon doesnt do magic damage, it does dikote and "weapon shape" damage... cus the magic orange (weapon) is in teh sock (dikote).

If you have a magic sword in a van, and the van hits something, it doesnt do magic damage.

I figure the weapon is still magical, it jsut wont have its magic properties on this plane because it is in something mundane...

I know your not going to get it, it's not something I can explain well over text.

[Necro Tech]

Actually the official response I received is yes, as long as the item could be dikoted in the first place. Also, benefits only apply in the physical realm since the Dikote is considered unnatural and not part of the enchantment.

[Austere Emancipa...]

[toturi]

*gasp* What if is covered in blood? Does it mean that the blood spirit is Immuned to Weapon Foci now?