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> Kyle Teller ...
PiXeL01
post Jul 23 2004, 06:24 PM
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Kyle Teller was the main character in the novel "Burning Bright". He pops up again in Bug City but aside from that, do anyone know if he is featured in any other book?
He and Seeks-the-Moon have always been my favorate Shadowrun Characters along with Dirk Mongomery(sp?)
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shadd4d
post Jul 23 2004, 06:27 PM
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Not really. I don't think he appears again, although I haven't read T:UCAS. I think it addresses the end of Bug City and has what happened to the havens and those there.

Don
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Skeptical Clown
post Jul 23 2004, 07:35 PM
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He was a Dowd character. Doubt you'll ever hear from him again, or any of the other Burning Bright players. Their stats are in Bug City, write your own resolution I guess!
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Snow_Fox
post Jul 24 2004, 03:46 AM
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"was a Dowd" Tom's never oging to write anythnig again?
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Paul
post Jul 24 2004, 09:44 AM
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It seems unlikely to me he will write anything for SR in the immediate future. Isn't he really busy making computer games and stuff?

As for Kyle Teller and his former Ally, here is an intresting question-how did StrainIII affect them?
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post Jul 28 2004, 04:10 AM
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Was Teller a Sioux born in the UCAS or a Sioux native?
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FlakJacket
post Jul 28 2004, 05:01 AM
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He was half Anglo from his mothers side and native on his fathers. Born in the Sioux Nation, but thanks to mom probably had joint Sioux/UCAS citizenship which explains the FBI thing and living there. At least as I remember it.
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shadd4d
post Jul 28 2004, 01:43 PM
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Also consider that he and the captain (Ravenheart, IIRC) both studied abroad, in Chicago, I believe. I find it a tad odd that the Souix would send mages abroad, i.e. allow others to practice brain drain on their mages, based solely on their magical tradition. Most students abroad who gain degrees in foreign countries tend to end up staying there for extended periods of time. Another reason governments try to invite promising foreigners to be degree-seeking students within their countries.

Don
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FlakJacket
post Jul 28 2004, 02:17 PM
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Well he was a mage in NAN which is mostly shaman country- there's a mention in the book of this being really embarassing to his dad. And since he seems to take a much more scientific approach to magic rather than mystical, I figure they wouldn't really miss him.
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shadd4d
post Jul 28 2004, 02:43 PM
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Yeah, but look at Ravenheart, also a mage went to school abroad on a military scholarship(!?!). Somehow, I can see the Souix asking themselves at some point whether they should teach both traditions, especially if the two (Teller and Ravenheart) being educated abroad in relation to the Souix results in them leaving the Souix for greener pastures, so to speak.

Look at modern education markets. It's really competitive dealing with brain drain, especially if the mages in question also have side skills that might be useful, such as doctors or anything commercial. Last time I checked, magic in and of itself didn't pay the bills, it depends what you do with it, and even the elves can't just magically whistle up lots of cred for their state.

Don
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booklord
post Jul 28 2004, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE
Yeah, but look at Ravenheart, also a mage went to school abroad on a military scholarship(!?!). Somehow, I can see the Souix asking themselves at some point whether they should teach both traditions, especially if the two (Teller and Ravenheart) being educated abroad in relation to the Souix results in them leaving the Souix for greener pastures, so to speak.


Teaching hermetic magic in Souix may not help that much. There appears to be a considerable bias against hermetics in most NAN countries. They've got the skills and ability to get employment whereever they want. So why not split for greener pastures ( so to speak ) when they have the chance?

In Kyle Teller's case, his own father considered him an embarassment. Combined with the fact that with his half-amerind hertitage he even looked like a "pinkskin".... He probably couldn't pack fast enough.

As for Anne Ravenheart, she probably got poached by Roger Soaring-Owl ( Kingth Errant CEO ). Last I read he was enticing all manner of top NAN military folks with the promise of high salaries. Being a hermetic ( at best a second-class magician in the view of many NAN awakened ) just made things easier.
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shadd4d
post Jul 28 2004, 04:26 PM
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Somehow I can just see this biting the NAN in the butt eventually, if they are allowing maybe 1/3 of their magical potential to just skip out on them. Great Ghost Dance aside, is there any other country that seems to be okay with letting magicians go regardless of tradition, barring perhaps Westfalen.

Don
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booklord
post Jul 28 2004, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE
Great Ghost Dance aside, is there any other country that seems to be okay with letting magicians go regardless of tradition, barring perhaps Westfalen.


Westphalia, Spain - Basically any country with a strong Catholic, anti-shaman tradition.

Switzerland - Any country with laws that heavily restrict magic use tends to drive away shamans.

Tir Na Nog - If you're not a Path elf or a Irish Druid. You are.... a) most likely unemployed b) on the Tir watch list c) Both

Yakut, West Africa, Australia Aborigine states - Shaman only clubs for much of the regions.

Islamic Jihad areas - Pretty much ALL magicians regardless of stripes are disliked, but I imagine they hate shamans most of all.

Carribean - Those hermetics ( bocor, I spit on thee ) are heretics compared to the true faith of the voudoun.

CAS - Those voudoun are in league with the shedim! Tell me where they are so we can round them up!

That's just off the top of my head.
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post Jul 28 2004, 06:57 PM
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So, an illogical contrivance serving as a plot device. Gotcha.
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Synner
post Jul 28 2004, 08:28 PM
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As you'd be learning soon enough - that is if you're still buying sourcebooks - not that illogical a contrivance when you look at the realities of the hermetic scene.

No matter how inexplicably common they seem to be in people's games, the truth is that in the canon Sixth World magicians are still a rare commodity, hermetic mages are a fraction of that number and the number of schools and universities (especially independent non-corp affiliated ones) capable of offering higher education in the magical arts are rarer still (the population wouldn't allow anything else).

In North Am, MIT&T happens to be the leading institution and if you want the cutting-edge magical know-how that's where you send your best mages (making sure an OMI agent keeps close tabs on them). Shamanism has it easier since you can dodge the academic approach completely.
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BitBasher
post Jul 28 2004, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE
No matter how inexplicably common they seem to be in people's games, the truth is that in the canon Sixth World magicians are still a rare commodity, hermetic mages are a fraction of that number and the number of schools and universities (especially independent non-corp affiliated ones) capable of offering higher education in the magical arts are rarer still (the population wouldn't allow anything else).
The problem with that is that after some choice lines in MITS magic itself is NOT rare, it's common. 1 in 100 people are magically active with the vast majority of them full mages. That's what, 60 Million magically active people? If 1 in 10 is a hermetic that's still not remotely rare, magic in SR was made common, and not special, nor rare. With exceptions, traditions like hermetics are at best uncommon. Where I work even just by straight percentages there would be 50 or so magically active people at my organization. You can't hit [edit] swing [/edit] :P a dead cat without hitting someone magically active.

Incidentally, that line in MITS is one of the things that really, really annoyed me and seriously boned with the atmosphere of the canon world.

Sorry, I'm done now. :(
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tjn
post Jul 28 2004, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (BitBasher)
You can't hit a dead cat without hitting someone magically active.

DUDE! I knew the shedim were invading cats too!... People say they're so cute... but I know better! Evil! Pure evil! Their hearts pump black crude! They're after me... I don't know how much longer I have... I think they're outside... OH DEAR GOD!
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Ol' Scratch
post Jul 28 2004, 10:27 PM
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Magic being common fits the themes and presentation of magic in the Sixth World just fine. It's still rare enough to be envious and largely an enigma to the majority of the world's population (you know, that 99% of the population that isn't Awakened in any way... with 99% being a rather big number in the grand sceme of things), yet common enough to fit the fact that they're still seen everywhere, including the shadows where they're a dime a dozen.
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BitBasher
post Jul 28 2004, 10:29 PM
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I dramatically preferred the earlier stance of "the average man will not during his natural lifetime see a real mage unless he deliberately goes out of his way to do so" instead of "statistically you went to high school with a few dozen mages."

I dislike that magic is neither rare nor special, but that's just me.
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Ol' Scratch
post Jul 28 2004, 10:35 PM
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The only change is that the numbers were altered to be more believable with the presentation of magic in the game. It was the earlier editions that were flawed in that regard, not 3rd Edition. They're still far rarer than metahumans by quite a huuuuuge margin. For every 1 magician you knew in high school, you knew 13 elves, 16 orks, 2 dwarves, 2 trolls, AND (not or, but and) 1 miscellaneous freak. That's still pretty rare.
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hyzmarca
post Jul 28 2004, 10:51 PM
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Statistics are meaningless. There may be 60million mages in the world, but they're not spread out evenly across the globe. Since awakening is both based on genetics and exposure to mana, it is probable that some regions have a large percentages of magicaly active people while some have less than 1% Someone who grew up in NAN probably went to school wth several Shaman. Someone spent his entire life in Maine probably has never met a mage. People who live near mana spikes are more likely to become mages than people who live in mana-starved regions, as well. This also means the Metroplex will have lower relaitive population of mages than areas that are rich in plant and animal life like Amazonia or NAN .

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Synner
post Jul 28 2004, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE
The problem with that is that after some choice lines in MITS magic itself is NOT rare, it's common. 1 in 100 people are magically active with the vast majority of them full mages. That's what, 60 Million magically active people?

I'm not sure where that quote is from because all I have in MitS is:
QUOTE
Only 1 percent of people in the Sixth World can use magic. A fraction of that percentage are aspected magicians, never get the proper training, or go crazy trying to deal with their gift.

No reference to the number of full mages let alone hermetics or even that hermeticism is the most common tradition (and by how much) anywhere but in North Am. I'm going to disregard the 60 million because that implies worldwide figures and the dominant magical traditions in the Eastern cultures (Wuxing, Shinto, Hindu, etc) are going to skew the way those figures could be read - not to mention the fact that the percentage is global and the incidence of magical talent is higher in certain regions (ie. TNO) than others.

Let's take a typical American sprawl like Seattle with a population of 3 million as a sample instead. So 1% of the population is magically active and the vast majority of those are full mages. For argument's sake, let's say that minus that fraction we're talking about something like 7 out of 10 (or 0.7%) with the remainder (0.3%) being adepts, Aspected magicians, etc. In Seattle and North Am the dominant tradition amongst those 7 would be Hermeticism (although proximity with the NAN might balance things out) - let's say 5 out of those 7 (0.5%). So, we're now talking about figures in the range of 15000 mages (including academics, wagemages, street mages, et al) in the sprawl or 1 in every 200 people (still rare by my maths). According to SSG (and other sources) the vast majority of those with any kind of official schooling are tagged and gobbled up by corps (as wagemages and secmages) and even governments and militaries - and are not the sort of people you'll be meeting on the streets everyday. Some others will probably end up in academia, yet others will go into the arcana and enchanting markets and finally some will try making it as independent magical service providers and (legal) street mages.

With the kind of money these "semi-rare" magicians can make staying strictly legal, there's not that much incentive to run the shadows. That's what I meant about being rare. Don't know about you, but if this was something only one in a every couple of hundred people I meet could do, I would consider it rare.

[edit] I must be ill, it's the second time today I find myself agreeing with Dr. Funk.
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kevyn668
post Jul 28 2004, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (BitBasher)
I dramatically preferred the earlier stance of "the average man will not during his natural lifetime see a real mage unless he deliberately goes out of his way to do so" instead of "statistically you went to high school with a few dozen mages."


If you went to High School w/ 3600 people and knew each and every single one of them. If that's the case, consider your self fortunate to be such a popular fellow. :)
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BitBasher
post Jul 28 2004, 11:35 PM
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I don't disagree with your breakdown by tradition, ect.. I kind of commented not directly on what you were talking about... I was commenting on magical activity as a whole...

And as a note to that I agree with your percentages, I just don't consider that "rare" I consider that uncommon. Depending on your job you come into contact with hundreds of people a day.

As a side note, since what determines magical activity does not discriminate, and does not manifest until puberty typically, there are a pile of asshat wasteoid magicians that you don't WANT working for corps, ect. Just think of Jerry Springer and that 1 of 100 of his guests will be magically active. :D
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kevyn668
post Jul 29 2004, 01:37 AM
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Okay, the Jerry Springer thing almost made me spew milk outta my nose from laughing...

No offense if this is just a nit pick but to use your "depending on your job, you may come in contact with hundreds of people a day.." example, just b/c you come in contact with that magicaly active person, doesn't mean you see him or her "do" magic. So, you wouldn't really know that they were magicaly active. If you look it at like that, than the whole "a person could go his whole life w/o seeing real magic..," statement would actually make sense.
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