Complaints, why do you get them? Options

[Fygg Nuuton]

my games are serious, but i have a sense of humor too large for anybody, so if something funny comes up i run with it. i use as much realism as i can, meaning if you shoot someone with a 9mm they will not fly back 120feet.

the shotgun boy had been playing in my game for about 3 months? twice a week, no wonder i get burned out hehe. anyway every session he would pull 2-3 stupid moves. the character had plastic bone lacing, i will set the scene as best i can in a short amount of time.

character runs at a group of NPCs, about to do god knows what, i think he just saw equilibrium, ive seen parts so i can only imagine. inside melee range he shoots the ork with his pistol, the ork takes a light wound. hes being held down by an ork and a bouncer type human, with the third man holding a shotgun in his mouth, not near his mouth, in his mouth. at this point if your using any sense of realism or common sense, you do not move if the ork is yelling at your teamates to stop doing what theyre doing. however fred as i will now call him decides kicking the knee of shotgun guy is smart.

now in all fairness i figured on this role i would give fred no combat pool, no armor and his body of 4 to soak. the npc had his skill of 4 and combat pool, and at this range even being kicked the TN was like 2-3, so they were all successes. i told him what the roll was going to be, and i said "fred, if you don't want to kick this guy i won't think any less of you" and at this point he says then guy has it coming.


my compliments include:
-realistic. guns act pretty much the same, the matrix is not the same, i do not run it like normal computers no matter what i know about modern computers. magic obviously doesnt work like anything else
-i use realistic enemies, they do not just stand there, most people find that entertaining that the enemies fight like they dont want to die.
-i use smart enemies, they do not want to die. all the guards are not bruce willis.
-other people have actually complimented me on the fact that fred got wasted by that shotgun blast.

my runs usually can be done successfully without gunshots, because logically you dont want to kill 25 people a day, unless your crazy or stupid.

i do run sessions however such as ghoul extermination, take out every ghoul you can. watcher spirits follow you, every ghoul you kill gets you 100¥. the watcher is because i had no idea how to count the deaths ;)

during a ghoul run i dont make cops around, i dotn make random people stop them, because its just a fun combat session.

[Smiley]

[Abstruse]

I'm with the camp that you should've given him a damage resistance roll, even if it was made so that it would be a statistical impossibility for him to survive. Resisting a minimum of 8S (lowest shotgun damage) and a max of 12Df I believe (shot rounds instead of slug in the highest damage shotgun) with a Body of 4, no combat pool, no armor, and rolling against a guy with a TN of 2 and combat pool...there's very little chance he'll stage it below D, but there IS a chance...just like it's very likely a person will die in those circumstances, but there IS a chance the slug will just tear through the back of his head and miss anything vital.

About bone lacing now...bone lacing isn't some magical bullet barrier floating around you. However, it IS effective slightly as armor at high levels. The most common place shot is the chest, and if your ribcage is laced in bone or other bulletproof material, then it will help in keeping from being injured as badly. However, bone lacing's main help against guns is that it helps prevent major trauma (thus higher damage) by reenforcing the bones and keeping them from breaking as well as helping the bone do its job as protecting internal organs. If the bullet hits bone and the bone doesn't break, then it is less likely that the organs the bones protect would be injured. That's why Titanium Bone Lacing offers an armor boost.

The Abstruse One

[RedmondLarry]

[Fygg Nuuton]

well, i'm not complaining, more like wearing my badge of honor. :vegm:

im not really evil, if you use common sense youll survive, but if you jump out and do something fun and it turns out awesome, thats truly fun. but if you mess up and die don't complain :)

in anycase i am always open for online games, if you feel like killing me IM me :)

[RedmondLarry]

By the way, not everyone dies when they do stupid things.

Today there were two lost eyes, one leg, and two magic points. No player character died.

[Fygg Nuuton]

[Deacon]

[RedmondLarry]

Deacon, oh man with the religious name. I was speaking of real life. They did use hand of god. ;)

(The two lost eyes were on separate characters. We had 19 people show up for Shadowrun today in Redmond, WA. We ran multiple tables and had 3 GMs, playing Shadowrun Missions.)

This post has been edited by OurTeam: Aug 1 2004, 07:55 PM

[Kurukami]

[UpSyndrome]

[Crisp]

I'd just like to add that players tend to think "Adamantium-Indestructible-Wolverine-squeleton" when thinking about bone-lacing.

This reminded me the time when after being asked what his reaction to the SMG wielding Tir Ghost's demand to halt was, a PC casually said-"I'll keep on running, I've got Titanium bone lacing." Since he was a new player he got a warning-Do you Reeeeally want to do that? (Let the Special Forces soldier with a tricked-out SMG shooting who-knows what kind of special ammo empty a magazine on your back?)-He was a smart guy and took the ever-so-subtle hint...

[Kanada Ten]

They complain we never have time to play. I can handle that complaint, even though I'd really like it to change.

[Moirdryd]

Guess i`m kinda lucky that i`ve never really had any complaints when i`ve been running SR. But then i`ve been with my gaming group for a good number of years and know what they want and they know how i run a game, so its all even .

[kevyn668]

"Whaddya mean there're penaties to fire two guns at the same time?! I've never shot a pistol before but I bet I could sit right here and shoot the hell outta you."

That's probably my fav. Followed closely by: "Why can't I have a Panzer?"

Actually, I take that back. My all time fav is "Whaddya mean the cops are after us?! Oh, is it because I shot the StufferShack™ girl?"

[Kagetenshi]

Well, if he was sitting right there, and you were sitting right over there, and neither of you were moving, he probably could shoot the hell out of you with two pistols.

Keeping in mind that it only takes a bullet or two to shoot the hell out of an unarmored person sitting still.

~J

[Moirdryd]

This was more of an exclaimation of shock and horror than a complaint but:

"They`ve SOLD my gear?.. my Rifle?..."

[kevyn668]

[The White Dwarf]

Just to clarify...

I never said titanium made them invincilbe like wolverine.

I said I tend to think of it more akin to those terms, as far as what it *may* be capable of doing.

In that light, I could see (as in me personally thinking) that someone with that 'ware surving a shotgun shot in said circumstances, would be plausible insofar as that it could happen realisitically.

That said, given a body 4 char (6 with lacing, and 1 point of armor) vs. a 10S shotgun blast with 4 successes is looking at real slim odds of surving... he only needs 4/6 dice to come up 9's or better...

Which is why Id allow the resistance roll. Hes probably dead, but may live if fate is on his side. Why deny the player their roll, which is allowed by rules, when the odds are already something like 99% in gm favor. Just let them take it, avoid the argument, and if that 1% comes up find a way to explain it, be creative!

[Fygg Nuuton]

[littlesean]

ALWAYS give them a roll.

I had a really tough physad in one of my games that was stealthing along slowly in Ruthenium, but what he hadn't realized was the wallpaper was specifically watermarked to reveal such things. Well he 'snuck' past a body guard and was lining up on the target when the bodyguard shot him with a hold out pistol, well if you call the Eichiro Hatamoto II a hold out. The bodyguard had more success than he did, so he rolled his body to soak the shot, all 13 dice. He failed to get more than one success. So he spent a point of karma to reroll his fails. And he failed. So he spent two points, then four points, then 8, then 16. He only had 34 in his pool (long running character) so he didn't have enough to try again. He was utterly shocked. He dropped with a deadly on the carpet of this hotel room. That is when the team kicked into overdrive and hauled his but out of there with a none too subtle entrance and exit. They did get him help in time, so he didn't die, but he decided to 'retire' the character and used his considerable bank account to "go into the light" and retire on some nice island.

So, let them roll, let them burn up their karma. Let the dice fall where they may, and above all, have fun.

[The White Dwarf]

Omg jump out the window.... I didnt see it coming! My precious plot, ruined by creativity! NOOOOOOO!!!

[Fygg Nuuton]

[Traks]

Yes, always give them a chance is a good rule. Even if you must roll 24 to survive, it can be achieved. And player will be more satisfied even with logical outcome.
One PC rolled incredibly and survived when fast driving truck hit him in the middle of the street. Now, getting in way of truck was stupid idea in the first place, but he survived.

And one player is playing all the same character for about 5 times - always big and ugly troll. I gave up trying to persuade him to play another character, because even elf would behave like a big, ugly, brainless troll. Now when he hits tenth, party WILL be taken to laboratory where those trolls are cloned and he will be forced to play another character. It is, if party clears that laboratory and I hope they will take some heavy artillery with them.

Yes, last time he died when charged into restaurant and chopped up some yakuzas in yakuza - mafia war. Of course, without any precautions against security cameras. Now he said that his next character is always wearing a mask :)

[littlesean]

Fygg- yes, the party was something like that. I was still fairly new to the group, but an experienced GM, and the current GM could no longer make it, so I took over the current campaign and characters. That was when one of them asked if they could buy karma, I asked how mauch cash he had to spend and let him buy it for 1000 each, as he didn't really have much cash. That was when this other guy peed in the karma pool and bought 100 karma. But I will take my lumps and go on. I came out with an escalating cost scale that went into effect the next game and they all razzed this guy about it for months. So I got to run a high stakes, high power game, which is normally not my style, but was fun.