 Trolls and Guns, Trolls can only use modified guns - Why? |
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 Aug 5 2004, 03:41 PM
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#76
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775  |
Same here.
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Aug 5 2004, 03:51 PM
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#77
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
The "need to be able to stop a troll" argument is not valid, because only trolls can carry this weapon, and they worry about that least of all races, becayse they *are* trolls. Also, This weapon has the velocity and penetration so high that shooting at anothinbg other than a troll, which 96.7% of the world is, it's going to overpenetrate immensely which is exactly what you do NOT want in a self defense weapon.
Somehting already posessed by all the troll modified pistols out there including the 300 dollar Ares Predator after street index. Correct me if I'm wrong, the availability doesnt go up for a troll modded weapon, making them just as available as a normal weapon, just more expensive.
All of which meaning that in shadowrunning it's a significantly unique weapon, easier to track, harder to get parts for and it stands out.
It definitely is using fancy ammunition, ammunition that's not standard to any postil other than this one and some high powered hunting rifles which don't see close to the mass production of ammo you get for any kind of normal pistol.
I would wager that the nonstandard ammo this thing takes may fall into military ammo by the standards that SR uses for these things.
Actually I doubt it's more powerful then the .50bmg handguns that some *insane* people shoot today. I dont think it can live up to this claim.
Above you claimed it was a semi auto non-military system, not it's a man portable heavy weapon system. You don;t get it both ways. A pistol will not work as a heavy weapon system anyway, the barrel is too short to make it accurate at range. Either way you contradicted an earlier statement.
{EDIT} I probably agree with Doc on the troll size issue, but since I've only ever had one troll PC in the last 7 years, it has never really become an issue. |
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Aug 5 2004, 04:03 PM
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#78
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Now those would be some seriously fucked up standards indeed. The kinds of ammunition considered for this have no military applications whatsoever. They're meant for hunting, and sometimes defense against big, dangerous critters. To restrict such ammunition, or such weapons, to militaries would make even less sense than not allowing Barretts to have AV ammunition when hold-out pistols can.
Well then call it the Most Powerful Serious Hand Gun In The World. Those .50BMG revolvers and, yes, "pistols" look ridiculous, and nobody in their right mind would ever consider using one for anything. The current holder of the MPSHGITW title is probably the .500S&W, which the Big Fucking Troll Gun could easily beat. I don't think this would be illegal, but neither would I think it would be commonplace or cheap. It certainly wouldn't be a "heavy weapon system", any more than .700NE rifles are. |
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Aug 5 2004, 05:06 PM
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#79
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
I think this very well might be the stupidest argument I've ever seen about guns in Shadowrun.
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Aug 5 2004, 05:11 PM
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#80
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Hey, they can't all be winners. :D and AE, I didn't know that was the round's primary purpose when I made the comment about military ammo. |
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Aug 5 2004, 06:11 PM
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#81
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Fortunately, that's because we've usually managed to moderate gun arguments here, stopping them from becoming all that stupid. This is just one of those sorta-gun-related discussions where no amount of facts change people's opinions, and thus do not help to reduce the amount of stupid.
Actually, I don't really know anything about the particular caliber that was discussed (.50 Alaskan). I just figured from the name that's what it'd be used for. And the ballistics (heavy, slow, solid) certainly support that view. |
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Aug 5 2004, 06:49 PM
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#82
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Even worse than the arguments over the Ares Viper Slivergun? ~J |
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Aug 5 2004, 06:51 PM
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#83
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The argument against the AVS certainly isn't stupid. ;)
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Aug 5 2004, 07:15 PM
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#84
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Sure it is! I mean, it completely fails to take wormholes into account when trying to claim that the ammo capacity is absurd. ;)
~J |
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Aug 5 2004, 07:40 PM
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#85
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Now now, the Grendel G-30 had a strange construction, but it didn't involve wormholes.
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Aug 6 2004, 05:53 PM
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#86
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 486 Joined: 4-August 04 From: Fomorian Wastes Member No.: 6,538 |
I've received Raygun's additional wisdom on the BFTG and if you allow me a few days I'll have thrashed out the catalogue with FT&G. I'll post where to get the catalogue for anybody who wants a copy. Not many of you I know.
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Aug 6 2004, 06:08 PM
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#87
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Target Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 12-June 04 From: England, London Member No.: 6,397 |
Havn't botherd to read all of this so I apologise for any repition of what has already been said.
A troll sized gun would be a nice idea and you could proberly make it work and make it so that the gm wouldn't mind having it in the game ie making it really hard to conceal so that the cops relive you of it upon a regular occasion. You then have a run scenario of retriving said gun before it reaches lock up with out them relizing who has taken the gun. And in reguards to somone mention rifle as pistols, in the computer game Fallout(can't remeber if it was 1 or 2) there is a rifle pistol detailed in there quite a nice pieace of weaponry killer range major damage but only 5 shots a magazine. In an old campain of our the only troll sized gun we came across was a rotary gun said troll ripped from the wall and then had modified so that he could use it. |
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Aug 6 2004, 06:35 PM
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#88
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 4-August 03 From: Amidst the ruins of Silicon Valley. Member No.: 5,242 |
I realize I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but...
Hmmm. Assuming that the various VITAS epidemics kept world population at about the same level it is now -- say, six and a half billion people -- then .04% of that number is 2.6 million people. Looks like a substantial enough worldwide market to me, given how prevalent ordering via cyberspace is even today. |
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Aug 6 2004, 06:44 PM
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#89
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Just reminds me of the "dueling" pistol I had an NPC bouncer use. Breach-load, single barrel firing what amounts to auto-cannon rounds.
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Aug 6 2004, 11:20 PM
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#90
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 8-June 03 Member No.: 4,696 |
It's a .223 pistol sawed down to pistol size. Shows up in both games. Completely insane as a human-usable pistol, but totally sweet in-game. Edit: Meant to say that it's a rifle sawed down. |
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Aug 7 2004, 12:27 AM
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#91
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 6,520 |
There are plenty of real-world .223 pistols that are easily human-useable. In fact, there are a lot of pistols that are chambered for cartridges that are far more powerful than the .223 Remington.
Thompson/Center Savage Striker Olympic Arms OA98 In fact, SSK Industries makes a Thompson/Center Encore chambered in the aforementioned .50 Alaskan and some other very powerful rifle cartridges. |
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Aug 7 2004, 12:39 AM
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#92
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 8-June 03 Member No.: 4,696 |
Yeah, but this isn't designed to be a pistol. It's just a normal rifle with a sawed-off barrel, no shoulder stock, no nothing.
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Aug 7 2004, 01:15 AM
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#93
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 6,520 |
Insanity! :)
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Aug 7 2004, 02:56 AM
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#94
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
That's not out of line at all, relatively speaking a .223 doesn't kick much. Mu dad has a pistol that's chambered in .3030 with an option for .3006. That sucks.
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Aug 7 2004, 06:34 PM
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#95
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 486 Joined: 4-August 04 From: Fomorian Wastes Member No.: 6,538 |
Kinda my point. But a mini-gun is seriously scary. At the moment there is not one troll gun in production at all. With all the talk on the thread the happy optimistic runners will find their bright business plans start to fall apart as the market niche fills faster than expected and transport of goods across borders becomes problematical. Then of course there's protecting the business against underworld as well as minor corp interest and we all know what type of people they could send. According to the sixth world web site in 2063 there are around 270 million trolls world wide. A sizeable group of people significantly different from everybody else. The internet has become the matrix. Here's a quick quiz. How many troll-specific items or product lines in canon literature can you name? Example; The Honda Viking motorbike. |
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