Ambidexterity, two weapon fighting Options

[Rory Blackhand]

I have a character concept in mind that requires ambidexterity to take advantage of a two weapon fighting style. If you look at the cover of Man and Machine it shows a samurai wielding 2 katanas simultaneously. I am trying to make a character on the path of becoming a "Kensai", (sword saint) and want to give him the best possible start I can to it.

I am confused by the number of differing systems to handle two weapon use though. First what is the current rule and the mechanics of how it works? Second is using two katanas acceptable? If not why not? Miyamoto Musashi used two katanas. Niten Ichi Ryu, "two heaven" style is a Kenjutsu art of two weapon use, sometimes two katanas. If not, then how about no dachi and katana for a troll sized character wishing to use this style? Is there a penalty for trolls to use two handed human sized weapons? I thought I saw a +1 penalty somewhere?

I also fight in the SCA, frequently with two long swords. The longer, the better, actualy. Anyone not familiar with the SCA, it is a "full contact" martial art using wooden weapons and real armor. I have been fighting for years. Two weapon style is common, but long sword/short sword is almost nonexistant, simply because it does not work as well as two long swords. This is not ancient history, this is real world practicality.

This link shows two long sword fighting in a tournament:

http://4th.com/photo.php?dir=sca/justin/ph...0030525-157.jpg

This link shows a grainy (sorry) video of a war, if you look carefuly you can see two weapon style being used in battle, skirmishers though, not in the main line:

http://www.romanempire.net/romepage/images...f%20movie02.asf

I am not sure on the rules, so I wanted to get some advice here. I am looking at the Canon Companion and it has variying degrees of ambidexterity edge. Is this an optional rule? To get no penalties you have to take an 8 point edge?

I would like to be able to use two swords with the least amount of penalties. I really don't care about ranged combat for this character concept. I just want to be the best two weapon swordsman possible. Any help is appreciated.

[Glyph]

The official rules for ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting are on pages 94 - 96 of the Cannon Companion. To use two weapons in combat with no penalties, you need an extra off-hand weapon skill, or you can take the Ambidexterity Edge (the 6 or 8 point versions let you use an off-hand weapon with your primary weapon skill). The Edge is slightly better, effectiveness-wise. Yes, you use up a lot of those precious Edge points, but subsequently you only have to improve one skill. On the roleplaying end, though, you may want to ask yourself if the character has trained himself to be good with his off-hand at everything (ambidexterity), or has learned a two-weapon fighting style but is otherwise normal-handed (an off-hand weapon skill).

Two-weapon fighting it very effective by the rules for it - you add half of your off-hand skill and half of all bonus dice that would normally apply to an off-hand skill. So take an adept with a sword who has Edged Weapons: 6 and Improved Ability/Edged Weapons: 6. Normally, that character would roll 12 dice. But with the 6-point Ambidexterity Edge, and wielding two weapons, that character would roll 18 dice. Since SR melee is essentially a dice contest, two-weapon fighters will tend to do very well. Still not as good as an adept, but adepts with two-weapon fighting are scary.

You are very correct about trolls being able to wield a two-handed weapon single-handedly with lesser penalties. Unfortunately, the rules have a list of primary and secondary weapons, which two-handed weapons are missing from for obvious reasons. So, your GM may not allow you to combine two-weapon fighting with a two-handed weapon used single-handedly - it depends on how much of a stickler for the rules he is.

If your GM uses the optional martial arts rules, you might want to get something like Kung-Fu, which lets you buy some maneuvers for weapons. The best one is Whirling, which lets you negate Friends in Melee bonuses for your opponents.

Be aware that in SR canon, the Japanese tend to be racist against metahumans to begin with, as well as sticklers for the samurai code, and a troll using two Japanese swords might quickly end up with the Hunted Flaw. You may want to stick with something like an Ares monosword and Cougar Fineblade knife - or a Chinese long sword and kris if you want to keep an oriental flavor.

[FrostyNSO]

Sorry man, but a long and short sword is much better for hand to hand, it gives you depth that you can't achieve with two long swords.

You can't just smack the guy with your sword, all of your cuts must be delivered with proper technique. When your up-close (and I mean sometimes your bodies are together), you can deliver a far more effective cut with a short blade than a long one.

The big disadvantage of two long swords is that your opponent can close width like I just mentioned.

BTW, I have studied Niten Ichi Ryu for 9 years now.

[Fygg Nuuton]

anyone wielding 2 weapons is shot on sight

[Cynic project]

My only character who really used swords used gladuious and a manhunter for his two weapon fighting. It was totally sweet.

[WolfJack]

[Necro Tech]

Back to the original topic, axes and hammers or picks make good combo weapons. The Picts loved them and hacked up Romans and other invaders for hundreds of years. They have the advantages of natural hooks and they work at medium and short ranges. On the other hand, there is zero finesse, just raw brutality.

[Rory Blackhand]

My question is primarily about game mechanics, using two weapons, and how it works. Glyph, thank you for taking the time to answer my question clearly and too the point.

To the rest of you; Fygg, I would shoot anyone I saw with two weapons too. Not the point, though. I am developing a character concept. Page 5 of the Companion, under "The Concept", "You can model your character after a......historic figure". I chose Musashi. What is wrong with that? He developed a trend setting style of using two swords. Like me, maybe he was ambidexterous? I throw a football and pitch with my left hand, but I write with my right.

Frosty, I disagree with you. You don't get more depth with a short sword except under very rare circumstances, like if you are locked in a closet trying to have a sword fight maybe. In that case the referee can use a little common sense and say weapons have a minimum space requirement to use. The fact is both long swords will be in play more often then not in a tournament setting for instance and your short blade will be next to useless except to block with. And since it is smaller it will even do a worse job of doing that than a long sword. I have been fighting since 1978, not steadily or even diligently, but yes, for the last 26 years. I have fought kendo experts, martial artists, olympic class fencers, and other athletes. I have beaten them all in my sport, and have been beaten when I tried theirs. You can't compare a heavy infantry sport like the SCA to a light infantry sport like kendo or fencing. Folks that are masters in one are not going to be masters in the other by default. Which one is more realistic? I will take the full contact heavy weapon training where you could be killed or crippled if you did not have armor on over the fancy dance steps of a kata based form utilizing rigid stylized sword manuevers.

The main difference I have seen between the sports are armor, weapon speed, and shot strength required to make a kill. The bokken you train with would not last one fight in my sport, nor would it be heavy enough to make an actual kill thru chain over boiled leather armor. Any hard wood would crack and shatter after three or four good hits with the power I put into my swing.

I can bench press just about 380 pounds, I am flexible, and I have great endurance. My shots can generate a good deal of force and I never tire of throwing them. I also routinely fight with two 48 inch swords and do not have any problems fighting in close or at range when I am on a tournament field. I use hard wrist snaps, like cracking a whip, to generate centrifical force to power thru my opponent's guard.

In your sport all the fighting motions are based on utilizing the weight of your sword, which is called Kissaki Kaeshi, right? To me this is funny. You think you don't need real power in combat with an armored opponent? You think you can practice to kill a man and not aim for his vitals in your sparring? You think only fighting three different ways ie, long sword on long sword, short sword on long sword, and two sword on long sword, gives you more real fighting experience than an SCA battle would where you could face anything between a spear to a battle axe and shield?

One thing I like about SCA fighting is that I can use any weapon, any combination, and any style and decide what actually works and wins a fight based off first hand experience. I have used unorthodox two weapon combos like polearm and short sword, axe and mace. and many others. Your own school's founder rejected traditional styles saying the only way to discover the right way to fight was thru personal trial and error. I can say with 100% certainty from many hours of hard hitting combat, that two long swords are good weapons up close, far away, and all points in between.

Since my blade is a long sword it has an edge on both sides. I will go chest to chest with you and strike your back with no more than a simple roll of the wrist. It is called a "wrap shot" because the sword hand actually punches past the plane of the opponent's body and the sword "wraps" around behind them as you roll your wrist sharply downward and pull into the "snap" to form a whipping motion just before contact. I have a strong wrap shot and most opponents that close with me find their back immediatly under assault and quickly move back to range or die.

On the flip side, I have tried to use the little bamboo kendo swords and don't really like it. Even a child can be proficient in kendo. It takes very little power to send those swords sailing thru the air almost faster than you can track. Not very realistic if facing an armored opponent, like Shadowrun bad guys for instance. Sure against an unarmored opponent I would probably take a Kenjutsu fighter over a heavy infantry fighter because of the speed factor. You want to take a man out by aiming for vitals instead of raw power, and that is cool when armor does not play a factor. Where you start to lose credibility is in heavy combat though. You won't deflect a bastard sword with a short sword, and if I am just as accurate at hitting as you are you won't side step it either. That leaves the raw power of my sword chopping you damn near in half vs you hoping to find a vital location with your many lighter cuts on me. You say you work on building powerful chopping power thru your rigorous training? OK, I work on building blinding speed with my long swords. I have a stack of tires in my back yard filled with dirt on a 4 x 4 post. I work for power, speed, and a crisp recovery every night. The little wrist flicks of cane fighting feels weird to me and unrealistic. In the real world we both get shot, with armor on you are dead, with no armor I am dead.

In Shadowrun we wear armor. The question and all argument has to be geared towards that fact. I have trained for hundreds of hours using two long swords, I have put it to practical use, I see it being more common than not in practical use, the list on page 96 of the Cannon Companion is not a list of every possible weapon, nor has the writer ever been in battle apparently. Musashi fought with two katanas, the cover of man and machine has a samurai wielding two katanas, film and movies, ie Matrix, Kill Bill, etc use two katanas. I don't see a problem with it? This is a fantasy game last I checked after all and the rules state the secondary weapon can't be longer than the primary.

The problem is with the list for secondary weapons. You can use two unwieldy whips, but you can't use two swords? Come on, get real. What about trolls? A katana should be no more than a big knife for a troll. You saying a troll can't use two katanas?

WolfJack, there are thousands of fighters out there that can kick your ass that would disagree with you. If you do fight in the SCA I would like you to explain that comment to Sir Bellatrix, you should know him if you are involved. If you don't fight in the SCA then you should shut up until you know what you are talking about. Yes there are costumes, yes there are women, yes there is drinking, but I, along with alot of people, do not fight for the recreation part of it. I fight for the sport and practicality of it. The eastern martial arts schools and styles do not have a monopoly on warfare. The SCA is a great proving grounds for any armed and armored combat style you can think of. If you are a martial artist I reccomend you look into it to add to your arsenol. A few of us aboard some aircraft on 9/11 could have saved alot of lives. No martial art that does not have full contact is much use in my opinion and I have fought alot of fights in my life.

If you don't think the SCA is a serious fighting group take a look at this manual. If you want to learn how to become a heavy infantryman able to kill and crush armored opponents then read it. The guy is old, but he was one of the best.

http://www.bellatrix.org/school/

The armor used is of varying types and weights. You can find light weight alloys like aluminum and not so light, like titanium chainmail. Accuracy buffs go with the steel, others get enough armor to protect against a baseball bat and live with the aluminum or rigid plastic. Point is without the armor, 14 gauge steel for head gear, you could not have a full contact sport like this with 7' wooden weapons. Not unless you want your brains bashed out of your skull.

Your short sword suggestion will do one thing in a real fight. Get you killed. Don't believe me? I live in the Detroit area. We can test it out safely with armor and wooden weapons. I guarantee you will not touch any part of my body before I can score 5 kills on you. Message me if you are interested in putting your money where your mouth is.

As a side note to everyone else. Since Cannon reworked unarmed combat. Shouldn't there be weapon styles with manuevers to represent the various armed combat schools?

[toturi]

*sigh* I see that you are one of those.

[Rory Blackhand]

Sorry Toturi, I am long winded. I will try my best not to get too deep in any dicussions any more. I am just here to have fun, not argue the mechanics of the world. I do want to create a character with the goal of becoming a kensai. Don't care how well I fight with ranged weapons. Just looking to be the best dual bladed fighter possible. Ambidexterity and edge weapons 6 seem to be the way to go. Probably a phsical adept too following the path of Bushido and skilled in Origami or some other art form.

[FrostyNSO]

First, if you've never had an opponent close width with you, then you are fighting inferior opponents. One of the best ways to negate your opponent's weapon reach is to close inside of it. Not just within arm reach, but close enough to inflict blows with your body if neccessary. Don't play to opponent's advantage, play to yours. If I was using 2 long swords, I would keep my distance.

Second, you don't block with a sword unless you want to have a broken or damaged sword. You deflect.

Third, just because you have beaten practitioners of other arts, and been beaten when you tried theirs does not make their style inferior.

Fourth, kata are not intended to take the place of actual training. They are intended to maintain proper sword handling and technique. "Rigid and Stylized" manuevers are just that. You do not make 'dance steps' either. When you fight, you fight with fluidity and you step naturally.

Fifth, your weapon's weight has little to no bearing on your ability to make a kill. Placement and technique are far more important.

Sixth, I have seen 'wrist snaps' such as you described. They are ineffective for delivering a cut in close quarters. Again I think our definitions of 'close quarters' are as different as night and day.

Seventh, my art in no way relies upon the utilizing the weight of the weapon. Anybody who knows anything about swords realizes that when it comes to a sword, lighter is better. Your own strike and technique is what provids the power in your attack, not weight. Where do you get the notion that we don't train to attack a person's vitals from anyways?

Eighth, where did you get the notion of only 3 different style ways? We train in many configurations against many other configurations, not limited to opponents with two swords, yari, naginata, chain-sickle, and many others. Your knowledge of my art is not what you seem to think it is. As far as shields go, I think a shield is even better than a second sword when used correctly, but we won't get into that right now.

Anyway, I will have to get to the rest of this later since I will soon be relieved, but as far as your bastard sword scenario, why would I sidestep it or deflect it when I can fall back and counter, or close width and strike? Also, you are partially mistaken, Musashi trained with two long swords true, but when it came to fighting, the man used all sorts of configurations.
I am happy that you have found a style that works for you. I however am able to bench 380 pounders so I must rely on another style. As far as putting my money where my mouth is, I live on the west coast so if your headed out for an SCA event or anything that's the only way we're going to ever meet. Otherwise, I can't be flying out to Detroit to settle a pissing contest. I don't know where you get all of your information, but I suggest you research things a bit more thouroughly before you go telling me how they practice my own art.

[FrostyNSO]

*am NOT able to bench 380 pounders, sorry.

[Glyph]

Getting back on topic... if you want your character to be the "best possible" two-weapon fighter, then an adept is really your only option. It's been said many times by many posters - adepts make better specialists, and cybered characters make better generalists.

The main ability that adepts have in melee combat is the Improved Ability power. Melee is an opposed test, where you can get wounded while "attacking" someone and wound someone while they are "attacking" you. So the ability to throw 6 extra dice into the mix is a huge advantage.

From a min-maxing perspective (and some min-maxing is not bad if it fits a character concept), you have done two things right already. Two-weapon fighting is effective for the same reason adepts are effective - it gives more dice. Trolls also rule melee because they have huge bonuses to Body and Strength, as well as a +1 Reach. Those two advantages would still not be enough to defeat an adept focused on melee, though - you need to be an adept yourself to truly be "the best".


You may want to see what kind of campaign your GM runs, though, and how he views character types that might be categorized as "powergaming". If a maxed-out character will do nothing but create friction in the group (who may resent your character for being more powerful, and blame you when the GM sends tougher adversaries at the group), then you may as well tone the character back a little and be more well-rounded. If you will be facing more street-level opposition, then your toned-down character will still be "the best".

[FrostyNSO]

Don't forget the absolutely AWESOME 'counterstrike' ability that adepts can get. .5 points for each extra die when defending in melee. Great for when your combat pool is toast =)

[Moon-Hawk]

Mushashi did indeed develop Niten Ichi Ryu, which involved fighting with two swords; a daito and shoto. Also called a katana and wakizashi. In fact, the term daisho means long-short. Your inspiration used a long sword and a short sword.

To expand on what Frosty said:

[FrostyNSO]

You make a good point, I should clarify. By block I meant when the combatants slam their swords together, or when one attempts to slam the opponent's sword away by force alone. That is the type of behavior which can damage even a well-made sword.

A parry can be effective, but as you said a battement or ward is much better =)

[Odin]

Although IRL blocking is almost useless unless you're using a large weapon if your using a knife or short sword your better off going for the kill and accepting that your gonna get cut so you better cut deeper and faster and harder......hmmm that came out wrong lol.

[Voran]

The thing that bugged me about the way SR manages ambidexterity in conjunction with skills, is that it seems you'd have to take ambidexterity to be able to play the drums.

[Ol' Scratch]

No it doesn't. You don't need Ambidexterity to use two weapons. It's just a nicer option than investing in two seperate skills or defaulting from one (Clubs) to the other (Off-Handed Clubs).

[Kagetenshi]

[JaronK]

I've actually been working on legitimate full sized double sword styles, and it's quite difficult to get right. I use swords of the appropriate weight, and I've been using my training in duel weilding flexible weapons to make things work... essencially, by letting the second weapon follow the first in most cases, and generally keeping both weapons moving in an arc, it's actually less tiring since the momentum of the weapons is always on my side. It's definitely doable, though I need to work on it more to iron out the kinks.

JaronK

[Kagetenshi]

But in a situation where you're using a fake SCA-style weapon, you can pretty much move the two swords independently of each other for a vast increase in effectiveness that just doesn't happen for anyone of realistic strength.

That being said, I could see Trolls or maybe beefy Orks doing it, but it's nowhere near as legitimate a "real-world technique" as something like SCA experience might lead one to believe.

~J

[Rory Blackhand]

I kind of forgot this thread I was so busy, but I was not done talking. At the risk of being pulled deeper into a needless debate I would like to add a few things to some comments that were made.

First, I was wondering how ambidexterity worked. Glyph was kind enough to help me out with a great explanation. Second I wanted to know about fighting with two weapons, in particular, two katanas. The chart on page 96 of Canaon Companion is far from exhaustive. I can't think of any reason not to allow two one handed weapons. The list does not even cover or account for traditional styles like Roman style retiarius, net and trident, or a variation of the same, laquearii, lasso and trident. Dimacheri, fought with two swords. Kung Fu weapons forms; Surng Nau Yip Doe, Double Tie-Sheet Blades. Surng Ngow Doe, Double Hook Blades. Where is the tongfa or the sai? You can't fight with them because they are not on the list? The Thais fought with two swords, Krabi Krabong is the grandfather fighting style of Muay Thai.

Here is a brief crappy video of Krabi Krabong. About 15 seconds into the clip is two guys sparring. Neither look dangerous to me. The guy with the two flimsly little bokken is doing a fighting fade or something? The guy with the single bokken is blocking with his hand? Both would be dead in a real fight with an armored opponent. Sorry I am not delivering high quality video for you to look at, but you can at least see that fighting with two katanas is certainly possible.

http://dogbrothers.tv/videoclips/dbmaa05.wmv

Here is a link to some background on Krabi Krabong. My wife is Thai which makes my kids half Thai, so I have a special interest in Thai history. Daab Song Muun, literaly translated means, "sword" "two" "hands".

http://www.kalijkd-u.com/the_martial_arts/...s/muay_thai.php

Or if you like fluff, take a look at some lame fighting kata?

http://www.cmac1.com/Unsu/video/kali1.mov

I think this alone is enough evidence that two sword style is historicly accurate even discounting Florentine fencing style or SCA fighting. My own personal experience of over 20 years of training says two long sword is a very good style.

Frosty, for the record, I have fought awesome fighters. I have been in close many occasions. What makes you think I have not fought in close? The double edge of the long sword allows for either blade edge to be used in battle, which is much more versatile than the katana. The lower edge strikes the opponent in the standard slash, but the upper edge attacks the back of the opponent with a downward wrist rotation just before contact from an overhead motion. Standing literaly chest to chest I am able to wrap my shots around to the backs of my opponents with no loss of power or speed at all. If you don't block with your sword you do not know how to fight. Not to mention this is Shadowrun with high tech alloys, dikoting even. I am not putting down other fighting forms. The ones with too many rules on where you can aim and the ones that do not allow hands on full contact training are not giving realistic training though. Sorry if you have invested alot of time learning an "art". In a real fight though I would want SCA trained men guarding my kids over any of the art schools that teach sword play. They are nice for show, but little else.

Your weapon's weight has everything to do with making a kill. Why would you say that it doesn't? Here is some testing done. Notice even a two handed sword swung with full power does not get thru armor. I hope this helps you realize that those light weapons do nothing in a real fight with armored opponents nor is it realistic to train with them with thise overhead little slashes to the head and shoulders. You need a thrusting tip to pierce armor or you need something like a mace or flail to deliver heavy crushing damage to produce blunt force trauma. Skill is great, but raw power is what kills quickest.

http://www.mythosproductions.com/media/ISTTDmed.mov

Your claims that a lighter sword is better only applies when facing unarmored opponents. And I will fully agree with you that technique and and light weapon is better in that case. I hope I am clear in distinguishing the two situations? In Shadowrun, which is what this debate is about, you wear armor or die.

Sorry, but you don't sound like someone who has studied Niten Ichi Ryu for 9 years as you claim. There is only one place that I am aware of that is authorized to teach it outside of Japan and that is at the University of Guelph Sei Do Kai in Canada, and only in the summer when the instructer has a seminar each year. Is this where you have been getting instruction? I am only a 3 hour drive from there and would be happy to demonstrate my own skills against anyone at the school if you are going? As far as getting out to Cali I do on occasion and I can put you in touch with friends that will be happy to show you what full contact is all about if you want? Here is a couple of links I found to the school I was talking about. It is hard to believe they have authorized anyone to teach that style outside of Japan and that is why I thought you were Japanese earlier when you said you had been studying it for 9 years.

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~iaido/iai-nitenseminar.html
http://ejmas.com/pt/ptart_taylor_0802.htm

Moon Hawk, thanks for the little lesson in sword defense. I use punch blocks alot and I am also very thankful to have a larger surface area to deflect with on the many occasions I face a speed demon. That is what a basket hilt was designed for. And if you get your glove really wedged in there you don't have to grip the sword so tightly, which is a good thing when you need to switch angles of attack quickly.

The SCA is a sport as you say. They stress safety with minimum armor requirements and an authorization proccess before you are allowed to participate in tournaments or wars. With the same protection used in kendo though there would be deaths. I have hit someone hard enough to knock them out, thru 14 gauge steel, and 1 1/2" foam padding. I guarantee you I could kill an unarmored opponent with little trouble. Give me two axe handles and come at me with anything that does not spit lead and see what happens.

You also claim there is no historical evidence for using two swords in battle? You don't know your history very well. Check out the link I provided about Krabi Krabong. The Thai government just spent millions of dollars making a 7 hour historicaly accurate documentary called Suriyothai. In the full Thai version which we have here at the house there is plenty of ground fighters using 2 swords in the elaborate battle scenes they created.

You also seem confused about how to train for a real fight. Your reasoning is flawed in that you think our methods do not give realistic results because there is no evidence of two sword style in history, which you are wrong about of course. But there is a simple fact you ignore, modern man has a long list of advantages over ancient fighters from any point in history, one of which is access to most all the knowledge that was ever written on the combined styles thru history. I think two long blades are a good style because I get my ass kicked any time I try something as dumb as going long sword short sword. And you think SCA style combat does not get as close as humanly possible to the real thing? That is like saying target practice at the rifle range won't make you a good sniper because you are not firing a living targets.

Kagetenshi, we have weakling women that fight in the SCA. Alot of them fight two sowrd. Two long swords. Which is absolutly no suprise to me considering the alternative is to hold a shield that weighs 5 times as much. Your statement at first kind of pissed me off, because you were in a sense calling me a liar about what I can and can't do! Then I realized you don't have a clue what you are talking about. The 50" sword I use in each hand with basket hilt weighs more than a katana. In motion it is aerodynamicly different, I admit, but that is actualy a good thing because a sword feels so much easier to control. Once you have had to move a rounded surface thru the air at great speeds the flat slice of a real sword is nice. Now if I could only find some training partners willing to risk getting killed.

JaronK, fighting with two weapons of equal length and weight is so much more natural. The human body is symetrical to a large extent and just like you said, you can realy get into a rythm when using both arms together. Try delaying one swing a bit when attacking the same side. Alot of fighters will block and recover, but if you are hitting high then low just a split second later you will catch some out of guard as they lower or raise to block the leading blade.

Check out this brief clip. Notice how close the two fighters are at the end. I have been chest to chest, but at least this clip shows that long sword within dagger range is just as effective or better. Too bad I can't get some of my video to you guys. I have hours of film, but none of it is digital.

http://www.shieldcam.com/video/capture0031a.mpg

[Sesix]

You know its amazing you say "I'm not putting down other fighting forms" yet you say "take a look here at some lame fighting kata" Sounds like a put down to me. Also to me you put a lot of emphasize on armor. Granted I will give you armor makes you some what of a harder target, but it also does something else, weighs you down. Cause of this your lighter opponent which you so discernably belive you will kill with a single blow, while quite possible, can dance circles around you all day. All he has to do is wait out your endurance while you stumble after him like a lumbering oaf. Even "if" you could bench press 380 lbs, thats str training, not endurance. There is quite a difference.

Now for the two weapon fighting, I can't agree or disagree, all that is a matter of prefrence. Im sure the long swords work for you and many others. Has quite a truth to it. However, I prefer two diffrent size weapons. Reason being my left hand is noticably weaker then my right. I dont need a dead left arm after trying to wield something thats much easier for my right arm to bear. I dont work that way, so the smaller blade would suit me, but see thats how I do it. I applaude yer use of two long swords, I could never do it, my arms wouldnt let me, plus to me it feels a little akward, hehe.

[Your weapon's weight has everything to do with making a kill]
I find this remark one of complete ignorance. You seem to be coming off as a man who uses brute strength over everything else. I'm not saying a heavy weapon isnt going to kill you, it will make no mistake, but theres more to a weapons weight for a death blow. Your so called heavy sword not being able to get through armor with a swing is true, of course its not, yer slashing against a solid object, why are you slashing? For such a thing you need to pierce the armor, while granted is hard but much easier then trying to slash his armor off him. How about that light weapon you so much despise. I know when Im using it against an armored opponent I dont go for the armor, I go for the spots the armor dosent cover. There are plenty, cause Im pretty sure yer not wearing full plate in a fight, any who do is sorely mistaken, that stuff was made mainly for parades not an actual on foot fight.

Its all a matter of technique and style. Every thing has its advantages and disadvantages. One must know how to utilizes these, and when one has mastered his own weaknesses does he masters his opponents.

[SporkPimp]

You guys are all idiots.

That said, I'd like to add something to what Glyph and the others are saying... the Ambidexterity edge is better, as has been repeatedly pointed out, but a major reason is because of Karma. Buying an 8-point edge and a rating 6 skill costs a little more in chargen than a pair of rating 6 skills, but the in-game costs of boosting both weapon skills will rapidly dwarf the benefits you could've gotten from the two extra points you put into Ambidexterity. At most you could've used them to boost two skills from 5 to 6, but for some characters that would be cheaper than raising Off-Hand from 6 to 7, and as your character ages and puts more points in those skills the combined karma cost of Edged Weapons and the off-hand skill will get ridiculous.

So, from a metagaming standpoint (and comparing the cost/benefit ratio of an Edge to a Skill is borderline metagaming anyway), you'd again be better off with the Ambidexterity edge.

You bunch of idiots.

-Albert