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> Well, this completely changes things., Ireland and Atlantis. O_o
Phaeton
post Aug 8 2004, 02:25 AM
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5623857/?GT1=4529

:eek:

If this isn't a plot hook or grounds for modifying/creating canon, I dunno what is. :|
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Austere Emancipa...
post Aug 8 2004, 02:36 AM
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http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=5079
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Phaeton
post Aug 8 2004, 02:56 AM
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Had a feeling someone had beaten me to it. :dead:
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snowRaven
post Aug 8 2004, 08:41 PM
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If nothing else it'd explain why the elves took over the island first chance they got...
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Cray74
post Aug 8 2004, 08:58 PM
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I'm still sticking with the volcanic Mediterranean island theory of Atlantis.
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Siege
post Aug 8 2004, 09:00 PM
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Bah. As we all know, Atlantis is lost somewhere in the Pegasus galaxy.

-Siege
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sidartha
post Aug 8 2004, 10:35 PM
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South Jersey. 8)
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Pistons
post Aug 9 2004, 02:29 PM
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This is beginning to veer wildly off-topic. Please keep it related to Shadowrun.
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Cray74
post Aug 9 2004, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Pistons)
This is beginning to veer wildly off-topic. Please keep it related to Shadowrun.

Finding out that Atlantis was, in fact, situated in New Jersey would have radical Shadowrun implications.

To begin with, there'd be a cross-country stampede of heavily armed psychopaths ("shadowrunners") from Seattle to New Jersey.

The NAN would probably protest the countless thousands of slaughtered border guards, military units, and bartenders who looked cross-eyed at the wrong runners.

A bunch of snooty runners would get on the Matrix and sneer at all the unnecessary killing, trumpeting about how they managed to sneak past the border guards and non-lethally deal with the others.

The really professional runners wouldn't say a thing, because that would be beneath them (figuratively and literally: they probably took a semi-ballistic flight across country.)

How the UCAS responded to the NAN protests is debateable. Likely, it'd declare it had no knowledge of the activities of those criminals, which it mostly certainly did not hire or have any contact with. However, if UCAS authorities could separate out the runners from the average inhabitant of New Jersey, it would certainly extradite any such criminal to NAN authorities as part of its "Good Neighbor" diplomatic policies.

The NAN would request clarification about what the UCAS meant by "any such criminal": runners who just slaughtered their way across NAN or inhabitants of New Jersey.

The issue would be rendered moot when central police, military, and judicial databases in the assorted NAN member-states burned down in mysterious circumstances and the handful of captured runners disappeared from their jail cells. NAN diplomats would no longer be able to name individuals for extradition.

And then, of course, the real fun would begin when illegal archeological digs in New Jersey began turning up Atlantean artifacts.
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Skeptical Clown
post Aug 9 2004, 03:42 PM
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There's really no credible evidence to even suggest a place called Atlantis, or even just a place that closely matched the description of Atlantis, ever existed. There are so many crackpot theories out there, that it's easy enough to just pick one you like and run with it.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 9 2004, 04:17 PM
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"Atlantis" is already a fairly well-established crossover from Earthdawn. They simply haven't gone into it very much.

That's not to say that you can't still "just pick [a place] you like and run with it though." Lots of run potential in a team sent to exotic locations to investigate rumors or crackpot theories on the subject.
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Cray74
post Aug 9 2004, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (Skeptical Clown)
There's really no credible evidence to even suggest a place called Atlantis, or even just a place that closely matched the description of Atlantis, ever existed.

Since we're speaking of Atlantis in Shadowrun, yes, there is an Atlantis. See: Earthdawn. ;)

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Skeptical Clown
post Aug 9 2004, 06:09 PM
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I know there was an Atlantis in Earthdawn, but Shadowrun and Earthdawn do not perfectly overlap, nor is there anything official saying Shadowrun has to obey the history established in ED. You can cheerfully toss that book out, and it doesn't affect your individual game at all. I doubt Shadowrun will ever nail down Atlantis with any kind of specific information.
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 9 2004, 06:12 PM
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Yes, in exactly the same way that you can cheerfully toss out Man and Machine, Portfolio of a Dragon, and both Seattle and New Seattle.

~J
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Skeptical Clown
post Aug 9 2004, 06:47 PM
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See, those are actually Shadowrun products. Of course, you don't actually need those books either, but the difference between a Shadowrun product and an Earthdawn product is pretty clear. Shadowrun existed just fine before Earthdawn ever existed, so it's hardly necessary to go back and check your Earthdawn references just to run a Shadowrun game.
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 9 2004, 06:49 PM
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No, it's not necessary at all, and certainly takes a back seat to direct Shadowrun references, but it does mean that, even if it never shows up, Atlantis existed in the Shadowrun world (as they are the same).

~J
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Cray74
post Aug 9 2004, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (Skeptical Clown @ Aug 9 2004, 06:09 PM)
I know there was an Atlantis in Earthdawn, but Shadowrun and Earthdawn do not perfectly overlap,

Except for the numerous characters - dragons, elves and horrors - that show up in both settings.

In fact, wasn't there a series of ED and SR novels that traced the life of one female elf and the horror that tormented her from ED to SR?
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shadd4d
post Aug 9 2004, 07:25 PM
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Oh yeah, although the only thing in English for it is Worlds without End.

Don
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Cray74
post Aug 9 2004, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (shadd4d)
Oh yeah, although the only thing in English for it is Worlds without End.

Don

That's it, "Worlds Without End," centering on the IE "Aina." The two proposed ED books didn't get published in English due to waning ED popularity.
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mfb
post Aug 10 2004, 01:50 AM
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it's worth pointing out, however, that there's been an official break between SR and ED--that is, stuff that happens in one system/game world won't necessarily be reflected in the other. granted, something as big as the existence/location of Atlantis (isn't that Thera, in ED?) probably won't differ.
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FlakJacket
post Aug 10 2004, 02:11 AM
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Wasn't it already established that Thera was in the easter Med- I'm vaguely remembering a snippet about the Atlantean Foundation running an underwater dig and strip operation on a sunken Island out there?
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otomik
post Aug 10 2004, 03:04 AM
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sure ireland fits plato's geographically description wonderfully if he omits the simple fact that Atlantis is sunk and Ireland isn't. maybe the IE chose Ireland because it reminded them of Atlantis but it just doesn't fit, you must acquit.
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Skeptical Clown
post Aug 10 2004, 03:14 AM
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Thera is a real island. It's in the Aegean sea.

Anyway, my point was simply that while there are obviously crossovers between Shadowrun and Earthdawn, those crossovers aren't exactly official, and they're mostly obscure or subtle. Were you to ignore something like the Earthdawn version of Atlantis, it really doesn't detract from Shadowrun, nor does it significantly deviate from the canon Shadowrun world, as Shadowrun most likely will never make any specific pinpoints of where Atlantis is or what it was like.
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mfb
post Aug 10 2004, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE (MSNBC News)
Erlingsson believes the idea that Atlantis sank came from the fate of Dogger Bank, an isolated shoal in the North Sea, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) off the northeastern coast of England, which sank after being hit by a huge flood wave around 6,100 B.C.
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Cray74
post Aug 10 2004, 09:53 AM
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QUOTE (Skeptical Clown @ Aug 10 2004, 03:14 AM)
Anyway, my point was simply that while there are obviously crossovers between Shadowrun and Earthdawn, those crossovers aren't exactly official, and they're mostly obscure or subtle.

With "Worlds Without End", the "Dragons of the Sixth World SB," thorn-sprouting elves, and drakes they're not "mostly" obscure and subtle anymore.

QUOTE
  Were you to ignore something like the Earthdawn version of Atlantis, it really doesn't detract from Shadowrun, nor does it significantly deviate from the canon Shadowrun world


That I can agree with. History rarely matters to games with short-term focus, like many SR games.
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