Guardian Angel Nanoware, Have a question about this. Options

[Method]

I think that the autonomous function of the GA is implict, otherwise whats the point? Obviously the writers intended for the thing to work this way. They might not understand the mechanisms involved (not being scientists), but the concept is there.

In reality the nanotech descriptions in M&M really sell this technology short. I'm not an expert on nanotech by any means, but anyone with a basic understanding of molecular biology should see the tremendous potential this device would have.

In reality every nanite would have an "active site" like any enzyme. All a nanohive would need is the ability to slightly modify the shape of that "active site" and the possibilities would be endless! What the nanohive/biomonitor system would do is monitor the user's condition and regulate the complex array of circulateing nanite enzymes in response to stimuli. If the user was poisoned (for example) it would detect the toxin, identify it, determine the dose and modify an appropriate percentage of the nanites to bind and cleave the toxin. Probably it would modify a percentage to bind and block the toxin's cellular receptor as well. Same for pain, inflammation, whatever responce was required.

As far as "supplies" go a nano-medkit that works like this could actually do a lot with very little. The body already produces all the nessisary materials (protiens, minerals, etc). All the user would really need to supply is freash nanites or the materials the hive needs to produce them.

As others have stated what would a second person do? Applying pressure or bandanges to a wound would be moot- a modified nanite could bind whatever receptors were nessisary to cause the appropriate vasoconstriction and stop bleeding. In fact they could be targeted to the relevant area of the body because they would have to have chemotaxic abilites and be able to recognize tissue specific cell-surface markers.

I could go on, but the point is that system could do most things all by its self. The idea that a second person is needed just as implied as the idea that it is autonomous.

[Cain]

[Cochise]

[cpcarrot]

Thought this was an interesting thread so I would chip in my 2 cents worth:

1st have a look at the "fluff text" as we like to call it. From the description these things are "Nano Biomonitor" systems. Not nano med kits or anything like that. Everything in the fluff texts describes them as Biomonitors, not some kind of crazy healing device. It says they can like normal biomonitors but more effective and they can analyse "body chemisty and hormone levels and generally opperate on a finer scale". It never mentions there ability to heal the user automatically in anyway. All it states that if there is a medical problem "the unit automatically triggers a warning display". Thats it, it displays a warning just like a biomonitor it never mentions any kind of taking action.

Likewise in the game effects section at the top it describes the system as a combination of a "biomonitor - actually a free floating nanoware system - and the diagnosis processor."

Now this is the important point that I think is the problem. The device that includes the med-kit effect as it where, is this "diagnosis processor" which if you read the standard biomonitor section is an expert computer that diagnose problems and sugest treatment, just like the devices used in external med-kits. So it functions just like the expert computer in a med-kit would allowing you to diagnose problems and tells you how to treat them, but does not, and can not do the treatment for you. All the nanites are doing in the system is replacing the standard biomonitor system as a way that the diagnostic computer gets its information not providing any kind of wonderful healing system in any way.

The Guardian Angel does have the additional abilities, ie will stabalise you if dieing, doubles overflow time, revives you if unconcous. And persumambly these are reflected in the diagnosis processor having additional abilities, i.e to function very similar to a trauma patch or stim patch. BUt it doesn't say anywhere that it can do anything other than that.

Saying that because it acts like a medkit does not mean it automatically heals you. A medkit is just a combination of sensors, reference programs, general use drugs, and an expert processor to make recomendations for the user. It will tell you things like "apply pressure to the wound at the following point", "start CPR as follows", or "having sealed the wound apply a splint to the leg as follows". Someone still has to do all these things and unfortunelty a nanite system floating arroun dth ebody would be totaly incapable of doing these things, thats why it outputs the data to someother place to allow other people (or even the victim himself in bad situations) to perform the first aid on the victim.

There is a device that effectively automatically heals you and thats the nanosymbiotes, they allow you to heal far faster than normal and that is nanites at work doing healing and the like, but speading up repairs and the like is one thing, performing first aid is something different and so far we don't have nanoware that can do that (probably because its very difficult to get nanites capable of apply splints, tornicats, field dressings and the like). Remember it takes an ENTIRE free floating nanite system (Carcerand-Plus) just to carry a SINGLE dose of a chemical ready for release. So its unlikely that they could carry arround with them all the different types of drugs that are required to perfrom first aid (contained in a medi-kit) and still being able to perform functions such as sealing wounds, splinting bones and the like...

As regards people saying "Oh but it costs so much it must be something great and all powerful". It doesn't really. Take the base price and subtract the cost of a Nanite Hive from it and the base costs and essence are just:

0.3 essense 20,000 cost for Crashcart
and 0.5 essense 50,000 for guardian angel.

Having a single dose of Carcerand-Plus free floating in you costs 30,000 on its own so its actually quite reasonable in terms of the usual cost of nanites

As for essense cost a Biomonitor usual takes up 0.3 essence and the diagnoistic processor takes up 0.2. So its just the limitation of the nanites them selves (having to have a hive to make them viable) that ups the price and when you start including that with the other nano-ware systems all of them are just as costly.

I'm not surprised some people have misrepresented these things as nanoware systems do seem to cost a hell of a lot and you would think you would get more bang for your buck out of them, but then again it does give you a medkit thats effectively hooked into you at all times and that could end up saving your life some day anyway so its nothing to sneeze at.

[Ol' Scratch]

And again, by your arguments, the Savior Advanced Medkit doesn't heal you either. The Game Rules are virtually identical to those of the Nano-Biomonitors; they work as a medkit with a -1 target number modifier on First Aid Tests.

So if the nearly identical game effects of the Guardian Angel doesn't provide healing, then obviously those nearly identical game effects of the Savior Advanced Medkit don't either.

[cpcarrot]

Thats right the Savior Advanced Medkit does not provide healing on its own. It does however provide 6 additional dice and a -1 target number to anyone attempting first aid with such a device at hand to give them accuate diagnostic data and to AID in treatment. But it still can not function on its own without a pair of hands to perform essential functions that are the basis of first aid. The nanites can provide some assistance for sure in both the diagnositic and the healing process but they can not do everything.

[Ol' Scratch]

Ooh, sorry, but you're wrong again. The fluff text makes it abundantly clear that the nanites do indeed perform the work. In fact, the only supplies you buy with the Savior Advanced Medkit are additional nanites for when they run out (which is a moot point with the Guardian Angel because of the included Nanite Hive).

And let's just throw away common sense and assume you guys are right. The Guardian Angel is just a diagnostics tool. Tell me this, then: How much do the supplies cost to take advantage of the not-really-a-medkit-even-though-it-is-a-medkit Guardian Angel? Why don't they list any supplies cost along with it like they do traditional medkits or even the Savior Advanced Medkit (even though the latter is, again, just spare nanites)?

[cpcarrot]

Yes I know the nanites do do some of the work. From the fluff text they "rejoin damaged tissue, stop blood loss and minimize the onset of shock" however thats not the complete package of first aid mearly a small part of it in which the nanites help out with.

[Ol' Scratch]

So, in other words, you're saying that the only thing it provides is a -1 target number modifier on First Aid tests over a normal medkit. And, just like the Guardian Angel, it provides no actual materials in which to follow any instructions it provides, because the only supplies it comes with are the nanites. Which, by the way, actually makes it worse than a normal medkit since you now have to take the +4 No Medkit Available modifier.

Oy. To each their own.

[FrostyNSO]

Is it just me or does an additional 6 dice and a -1 modifier seem really excessive if the Savior is just a bio-monitor system?

[BitBasher]

I have to agree with funk here, unlike a normal medkit which provides medical supplies this one does nothing of the sort. Hell, it's INSIDE the patient and doesn't even provide any feedback or have any way to communicate with the owner unless he buys the obtional unnecessary screen.

[Zeel De Mort]

Yep, agreed Bit.


and as cpcarrot just quoted in his post, the nanites in a Saviour kit do some of the first aid work themselves. So you roll your Biotech (First Aid) skill with an extra +6 dice and -1tn as a result. That's an extra 3 dice and -1tn over a normal medkit, which contains no nanites but is otherwise approximately the same in what it can do, i.e. they both contain a diagonsis system, drugs, etc.

As was quoted, the nanites in a Saviour kit "rejoin damaged tissue, stop blood loss, and minimize the onset of shock". That sounds pretty much like first aid to me, and if the nanites (and it's talking specifically about the nanites in that quote) in a Saviour kit can do that, I don't see why those in a GA can't do it as well.

[ShadowGhost]

[FrostyNSO]

I meant it's excessive if it is just a bio-monitor and has no other rea function like others on this board have said.

[Shockwave_IIc]

[ShadowGhost]

[Shockwave_IIc]

Grr, perhaps or perhaps not,

The dice are for any Biotech test, the -2 only for for first aid, some people might not of got that, more so since you used it in the same sentence so fuck you.