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FrostyNSO
In M&M it says this acts as a rating 6 medkit but gets a -1 modifier. It will attept to revive an unconcious subject, and it will attempt to stabilize a dying subject.

If it functions as a rating 6 medkit, does that mean that when somebody that has this nanoware takes a wound it will try to heal it?
Cray74
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
If it functions as a rating 6 medkit, does that mean that when somebody that has this nanoware takes a wound it will try to heal it?

Yes. You have your own built-in paramedic team.
FrostyNSO
That's what I have always thought but it seems a little...I dunno.

So I assume it takes the same amounts of base time for first aid as a medic would need, but do you have to be laying there while it works, or can you be running, shooting, etc?
Eyeless Blond
Hm, that's a good point. Maybe instead of a flat -1 it should have a movement modifier, same as for other actions in combat: -1 when standing still, -0 for walking, and +whatever it was for running (+2? +3?)
Zazen
I've ruled that, unless you're at deadly, you have to spend a free action to tell it to heal you. You also have to sit or lay down and physically rest somewhat (decking, aiming, using SUT, etc. are all fine). Works great.

I made it controllable because there may be times when you don't want it to heal you (like if there's a superior medic right next to you).
FrostyNSO
I just told him it starts up asap but he has to be at rest. The only superior medic we have is the guy that actually has the ware =)
Cray74
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
I just told him it starts up asap but he has to be at rest. The only superior medic we have is the guy that actually has the ware =)

I figured by default, it'll activate when needed. You can tell it to stop, of course.

I hadn't thought of the movement issue, though, simply because the only medkits I've seen in play were operated by other PCs, not implants. I guess I'd rule the person would need to be fairly still, too.
BitBasher
Why would they need to be still? it's all nanomachines operating on a cellular level.
Black Isis
Hard to patch up your gushing chest wound when your heart is working overtime to pump blood through the rest of your body as you sprint down a corridor. Or patch a muscle when it is flexing (or trying to flex).
Cray74
This reminds me. I need to get in some more SR time so I can finish converting my favorite samurai to the Immortal Samurai: Platelet Factory, Chemical Gland (Platelet Factory Decoagulant), Symbiotes 3, and Guardian Angel Nanobiomonitor. Am I forgetting some healing-related cyber-, bio-, or geneware?
mfb
well, a trauma damper will automatically knock your wound level down by one, just about every time you get hit. that'll make things easier for the guardian angel.
Cray74
QUOTE (mfb)
well, a trauma damper will automatically knock your wound level down by one, just about every time you get hit. that'll make things easier for the guardian angel.

OTOH, it'll send a tick of damage over to the stun column, which can result in some annoying wound penalties. I've always avoided trauma dampers for that reason, but...maybe it'd be worthwhile, just to get that rapid reduction in physical damage along with the platelet factory.
sidartha
Acutaly the wound penaltys are the same (-3 serious = -2 moderate + -1 light,s)
the thing really comes in handy when you take two serious wounds and are at ten physical boxes instead of twelve. Or when you get shot on a run and take a Mod + Light,s then you shake off the stun on the way to the meet with the J, so when he double-crosses you, your at a -2 instead of a -3. wink.gif
mfb
and plus, the time for healing a stun wound is halved. base time per box becomes 15 minutes; with your 'ware and a high body, you should be able to knock that down to 2-3 mins.
Cray74
QUOTE (sidartha @ Aug 11 2004, 08:06 PM)
Acutaly the wound penaltys are the same (-3 serious = -2 moderate + -1 light,s)


Assuming you have no prior stun to deal with when the box transfers over.

But maybe it's time for me to reassess the trauma damper.
BitBasher
QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 11 2004, 08:15 PM)
and plus, the time for healing a stun wound is halved. base time per box becomes 15 minutes; with your 'ware and a high body, you should be able to knock that down to 2-3 mins.

AFAIK Base time for healing stun is an hour not half an hour per box divided by the number of sucesses on a body or willpower test (whichever is higher) TN 2 plus your wound modifiers...
sidartha
If you already have stun then you already have stun. The math works out the same.
The point is it can save your life in a pinch and you heal stun twice as fast and any first aid tests are made at a lower TN and reduce more boxes.(funny how that game mechanic works smile.gif ) I personally love the thing however we play by the FAQ so the Dampener is verboten at starting and finding a Beta clinic is difficult at best. Oh well.


<edit>
QUOTE
Base time for healing stun is an hour not half an hour per box divided by the number of sucesses on a body or willpower test (whichever is higher) TN 2 plus your wound modifiers...

Either way one heals stun faster than normal damage making it possible to do mid-run.
mfb
oops, right, base time of one hour per box.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Cray74)
QUOTE (sidartha @ Aug 11 2004, 08:06 PM)
Acutaly the wound penaltys are the same (-3 serious = -2 moderate + -1 light,s)

Assuming you have no prior stun to deal with when the box transfers over.

At which point the extra box of Stun will probably have no additional effect unless it's at the 3, 6, or 10 box increment.
Necro Tech
Don't forget that the trauma damper is a godsend for deckers (no more constant backlash while running DNI) and mages. The loss of a magic point is more than made up by the removal of a box of stun when you are draining powerful spells.
Eyeless Blond
Constant backlash when you're running DNI? Is this from an older edition, or did I miss something?
Zazen
QUOTE (sidartha)
<edit>
QUOTE
Base time for healing stun is an hour not half an hour per box divided by the number of sucesses on a body or willpower test (whichever is higher) TN 2 plus your wound modifiers...

Either way one heals stun faster than normal damage making it possible to do mid-run.

Not always.

Someone long ago suggested the clever tactic of taking a level 1 Damage Compensator. That way if you take a Light, it doesn't get transferred to stun. The Guardian Angel can heal a Light in 15 seconds or less, where it'll take at least a couple minutes to heal a box of stun. smile.gif
mfb
...except that trauma dampers only kick in after your damage compensators have already been overwhelmed.
Ol' Scratch
That's the point.

If you only suffer a Light Wound (as in, take one box of damage) the Guardian Angel will repair that in just a few seconds whereas if you didn't have the Compensator, the box would have shifted over to Stun Damage where the Guardian Angel wouldn't have been able to do anything and you'd have the base time of one-hour before its effects would disappear.

This is particularly useful if you also have Platelet Factories and two points of Damage Compensation (or Pain Resistance, or anything else along those lines). Now, even a Moderate Wound will be healed in a matter of seconds; the Platelet Factories will shift it to two boxes of Light damage, neither of which will be shifted over to Stun because your Trauma Damper doesn't realize you're wounded thanks to the Compensators, and the Guardian Angel would be able to patch them up in no time.

The only iffy part is determining which implants kick in first. The rules never really go into this and a lot of the "trick" is in having the implants work in a specific order; namely Platelet Factory > Trauma Damper > Nano-Biomonitor.
Zazen
Yes, that's the point nyahnyah.gif
BitBasher
Actually I'd be on the borderline that the guardian angel doesn't detect or treat anything because the body can't feel it. Eh, I could go either way with that I suppose.
Herald of Verjigorm
The exact phrasing on the guardian angel is that it provides a treatment to stabilize a character in overflow or on command. I think there may be a third trigger, but it wasn't "when hurt" either.

With that in mind, triggering DNI like that is a free action (IIRC) and you can use a free action on another's turn, so you can trigger the heal function right after you get shot.
Necro Tech
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Constant backlash when you're running DNI? Is this from an older edition, or did I miss something?

Actuallt its both cold and hot assist. It called simsense overload damage. Every time your Icon gets hit you make a Will check vs. a target number (2/3/5) based on your damage level. Fail the check, take a light wound.
Ol' Scratch
Do you have a page reference for that, NecroTech? I admit that the decking rules is one of my weak spots in the game, but I don't recall ever seeing that before. Seems kind of odd.
Necro Tech
BBB 226 under Simsense overload. (Now with attached table!!! wobble.gif )
Ol' Scratch
Oh, that's a reprecussion that only occurs with White and Gray IC. Okay, now it rings a bell. smile.gif I thought you were saying it occured anytime your icon took damage.
Necro Tech
Other than attack programs weilded by other deckers, you do take overload damage every time your Icon gets damaged. Black IC just does it faster.
mfb
crap, i always forget about that. kinda like knockdown.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Necro Tech)
Other than attack programs weilded by other deckers, you do take overload damage every time your Icon gets damaged. Black IC just does it faster.

That hardly constitutes a decker always suffering Simsense Overload. There are plenty of other means of being attacked that don't include White or Grey IC. It's like saying that all runners are constantly suffering damage while running because you have the opportunity to run into a bad guy with a gun.
Shockwave_IIc
QUOTE (Necro Tech @ Aug 11 2004, 11:25 PM)
Don't forget that the trauma damper is a godsend for deckers (no more constant backlash while running DNI) and mages. The loss of a magic point is more than made up by the removal of a box of stun when you are draining powerful spells.

More so as it allows Conjurers to summon (force=1/2Charisma) Spirits with no drain. Or great form them and only take 2 boxes of light stun assuming you fail to soak any of it.
Herald of Verjigorm
The drain code for great forms is defined by the spirits natural force, it's just the TN that doubles. So a charisma 12 conjurer with trauma damper can summon all the force 6 great forms you want.
Necro Tech
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE (Necro Tech @ Aug 11 2004, 11:14 PM)
Other than attack programs weilded by other deckers, you do take overload damage every time your Icon gets damaged. Black IC just does it faster.

That hardly constitutes a decker always suffering Simsense Overload. There are plenty of other means of being attacked that don't include White or Grey IC. It's like saying that all runners are constantly suffering damage while running because you have the opportunity to run into a bad guy with a gun.

Like? What else damages your Icon besides attack programs that doesn't do damage to your meat bod? White and grey IC do it as a side effect, black IC, black hammer, Killjoy deal it directly.

As for the second part, what are you responding to? The text you quoted or my first post? As for real world vs matrix running there is just no comparison. You hit a facility, you might run into some guards with guns. You hit their mainframe and it is guaranteed. All system have IC.

Quick straw poll, of those who actually play (or have played) deckers. How many times have you cruised a Green Hard or up and not actually engaged in ANY cyber combat.

mfb
off the top of my head, there's tar baby/pit, trace, scout, and crippler.
Necro Tech
Those are white and grey IC. Also, none of them damage your Icon.
mfb
that's the point. there are lots of attacks you can come under that don't deal icon or backlash damage.
Necro Tech
If you give a broad definition to the term attacked sure. But, regardless, the issue in question is simsense overload. Doc Funk and I were talking about damage to your Icon (at least orginally).

QUOTE
Oh, that's a reprecussion that only occurs with White and Gray IC. Okay, now it rings a bell.  I thought you were saying it occured anytime your icon took damage.


My point was and is that IC makes up 90% of the damage most deckers suffer. My original point was that Trauma Dampers eliminate the test entirely. For me, this is a huge deal.
mfb
ah. i was confused, because it had originally sounded like you meant this happened with a much higher frequency.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Necro Tech)
My point was and is that IC makes up 90% of the damage most deckers suffer.

Only if the only thing you do as a decker is break into a host and not much more. Security deckers and agents tend to come up quite often the few times I've played a decker. IC is just a static obstacle that can be sleazed past with relative ease most of the time, assuming you're a competent decker.

Regardless, White and Grey IC are still hardly "90%" of all the damage an icon takes. They come up regularly, sure, but Simsense Overload Damage (by the sheer fact a number of people in this thread didn't even remember its existance) isn't something that is a constant problem for deckers. 'Sides, if you are having trouble making even a Willpower(5) test on a regular basis, you have no business being a decker.

But that aside, Trauma Dampers are nice all around. Conjurers get the biggest bang for their buck out of it, followed closely by other non-adept magicians.
Necro Tech
I have to ask out of pure curiosity now. What does damage Your Icon? The security deckers wont even come out until you are at least 5-7 pieces of IC in.

Ok, enough derailing this thread. I'll start my own.
mfb
i tend to run a lot of Matrix combats--invading deckers/otaku coming to trash the PCs' home host, etcetera, so i see a lot more icon damage from attack progs than from IC.

also, i think Funk is probably using a wider definition of 'damage'. Necro, you're talking about marking boxes off on your lifebar; Funk is probably including things like crippler and tar IC.
The White Dwarf
Out of curiosity, what makes you guys think this can heal you on your own? Ive read it, and reread it. The wording and references are very specific, and thats not the conclusion I reach. Im more interested in hearing why people seem to think otherwise rather than quoting, I can put my reasons up in awhile.
BitBasher
QUOTE
Out of curiosity, what makes you guys think this can heal you on your own?
How else would you propose this works?
mfb
hm. upon reading it (i've never had a character get one installed, so i haven't bothered sitting down and going over it until now), white dwarf seems to be correct. the Guardian Angel can stabilize you or revive you on its own, but it doesn't just kick into gear and heal you without help from you. for healing, it acts as a rating 6 medkit and gives you a -2 TN to biotech (first aid) tests. but if you read up on medkits (M&M p136-8 ), you'll find that medkits require you to perform tasks like applying bandages and whatnot--they're not automatic. the GA doesn't say anything about automatically healing you, so, by the rules, it doesn't.

incidentally, there's no way pain resistance/damage compensators should interfere with a GA's ability to assess and repair damage. whether or not your body feels the damage is irrelevant--the GA is part of a biomonitor.
FrostyNSO
It says it functions as a rating 6 medkit with a -2 to first aid...not that it only works for stabilize/revive.

I figured the nanobots worked to seal severed arteries and such...but the book isn't very clear on this so that's why I was asking.
mfb
right, but--like i said above--read up on medkits, on pages 136-138 of M&M. medkits don't perform first aid on their own; they simply tell you what to do.
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