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> PhysAd with Regen. Magic loss when?
Bossemanden
post Aug 11 2004, 11:10 PM
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The situation is this:

I have a player that I allowed to be a vampire and a PhysAd at the same time. This is of course an expensive combo, but it does give a couple of problems. When to roll for magic loss for one.
My initial position is that he must roll for magic loss every time he hits deadly wounded, and as he regenerates that can be quite often.
He is of course of the opinion that he should only roll for magic loss when he fails his regen roll.

The compromis we are discussing is throwing two (different) dice when he hits deadly. One for the body. If it fails (i.e rolling a 1) then he also has to roll for magic loss. The other is only for the magic. If he rolls a one then he must roll for magic loss.

What do people here think. Am I being overly nice or harsh?
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Zeel De Mort
post Aug 11 2004, 11:21 PM
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Just make him roll for magic loss every time he takes a straight out deadly, just like everyone else. That should be fine. It's a good way to stop him from just diving into the thick of things cos he knows he'll (probably) regenerate it all afterwards.
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FlakJacket
post Aug 11 2004, 11:27 PM
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Tough luck, you take a deadly wound then you do the magic loss dance.
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Bossemanden
post Aug 11 2004, 11:28 PM
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Ok. Im not sure if Ill enforce that (risk of a very angry player). But I am certainly not going to give him all that he wants (only on failed regen roll). So its either always on deadly or the compromise I outlined above.

Edit: Hmm I just had an idea. Use the good/evil coin....mmh yes that makes sense. 8)
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BitBasher
post Aug 11 2004, 11:28 PM
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By the rules he takes magic loss like everyone else. Regeneration doesn't stop horrible trauma, it just stops it from staying that way.

Edit: DONT WUSS OUT. Do what's right not what the player wants. Sometimes what's good for the game is NOT what the player wants. Bend over for a player and he'll know you will again in the future. You run your game, NOT him.
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Eyeless Blond
post Aug 11 2004, 11:35 PM
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Indeed; if they guy can't stop taking Deadly wounds even with regeneration they shouldn't be in battle at all.

Btw, is there a rule somewhere about having to check for magic loss whenever a character has 16 or more boxes of damage, whether or not either monitor is in deadly, or is that something else?
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Bossemanden
post Aug 11 2004, 11:40 PM
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Dunno about that 16 box rule. Where is it written?
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Zeel De Mort
post Aug 11 2004, 11:41 PM
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You need trauma surgery after you get a total of 16 boxes, even if you're not into deadly, but as far as I know you don't have to check for magic loss. In fact I'm quite sure you don't.
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BitBasher
post Aug 11 2004, 11:42 PM
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Where is that trauma surgery rule?
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Bossemanden
post Aug 11 2004, 11:44 PM
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I just sent my player a mail where I explained that Im gonna use the good/evil coin every time he hits deadly (I also explained that whining about this will only result in the coin showing evil every time).

Thanks for the comments and advice guys.
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Zeel De Mort
post Aug 11 2004, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE (BitBasher)
Where is that trauma surgery rule?

p148 M&M, at the bottom of the second paragraph of the Trauma Surgery heading.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 12 2004, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (Bossemanden @ Aug 11 2004, 05:44 PM)
I just sent my player a mail where I explained that Im gonna use the good/evil coin every time he hits deadly (I also explained that whining about this will only result in the coin showing evil every time).

Thanks for the comments and advice guys.

That really is a shame. You shouldn't give special treatment to a player just because he's upset with the rules, especially when you've already allowed him to play an immensely powerful character to begin with (seriously; a single vampire can take down an entire team of experienced shadowrunners).

If anything, you should allow this coin-toss rule for everyone in the game (both PCs and NPCs alike). It's just not fair to the other players to let him be a vampire and not suffer Magic Loss as often as they have to just because he goes into fights kamikaze style.

Regeneration is no excuse for being stupid, and being stupid should never be rewarded.

Edit: And please, for all that's good in the world, try and stop using the term "PhysAd." Not only is it silly sounding/looking, but it's archaic. They're called "adepts" now. :)
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BitBasher
post Aug 12 2004, 02:07 AM
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I have to totally agree with Funk here. Everyone should be treated equally. Period.
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Bossemanden
post Aug 12 2004, 02:55 AM
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You guys are probably right about this, but I was very quick to propose some sort of compromise. As such I had already eroded my bargaining position somewhat.

Part of this vampire adept (not PhysAd anymore ;) ) is that he has some compulsions, that force him to not drink more blood than up to 6 essence (if he breaks that one Im gonna give him hell) and weekly essence loss instead of monthly. On top of that he is very idealistic and tries unto folly to defend the weak against their oppressors.

Yes he is probably too powerfull, so I shall have to enforce his flaws very firmly.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Aug 12 2004, 03:08 AM
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So, he gets 6 (5 before his weekly kill) added to his physical attributes, has access to all the same armor options as anyone else who wants to avoid cyberware and bioware, and he still can't avoid deadly wounds?

What does he do, carry a stake for purposes of impaling himself with?
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 12 2004, 03:11 AM
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You left out Mist Form, the most potent ability they have. Especially since it grants Immunity to Normal Weapons.
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BitBasher
post Aug 12 2004, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE
You guys are probably right about this, but I was very quick to propose some sort of compromise. As such I had already eroded my bargaining position somewhat.
You dodn't erode anything. You're the GM. You summon some cojones and say "I though about it and decided against it. You're going to have to follow the normal rules. That's my final decision." Bam. Done.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Aug 12 2004, 03:24 AM
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QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
You left out Mist Form, the most potent ability they have. Especially since it grants Immunity to Normal Weapons.

It was in a previous draft that ended up too long and incomprehensible. Mist form + sorcery is crueler than a high force free spirit, but mist form + adept is only really abusive if you max out initiative and always keep a held action.
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Bossemanden
post Aug 12 2004, 03:55 AM
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QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
So, he gets 6 (5 before his weekly kill) added to his physical attributes, has access to all the same armor options as anyone else who wants to avoid cyberware and bioware, and he still can't avoid deadly wounds?

What does he do, carry a stake for purposes of impaling himself with?

This specific time he did not have access to any armor (The nice and evil GM took it away).
Given his Robin Hood mentality itll be a while before he can afford any high grade armor though.
Hopefully by this time he has created enough attention that the society of St. Leopold (or someone like that) are going to come looking. Or I can just damn well decide that this is the case.

Basically when he stops roleplaying the restraints build into the character, I shall have to kill him (will probably give him a warning first).
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Glyph
post Aug 12 2004, 07:17 AM
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According to the Shadowrun Companion, pg. 36, a shapeshifter magician who takes deadly damage must check for Magic loss per the standard rules. That's an official rule for handling Magic loss for a regenerating character right there. So if you let him off with a 50/50 chance, you should also do the same thing for all of the awakened PCs. Like Dr. Funk said, fair is fair.
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Ol' Scratch
post Aug 12 2004, 07:24 AM
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If you do anything, introduce a new metamagic technique into your game. Call it something like "Grounding" and come up with some mechanic that allows the initiate to withstand Magic Loss more easily such as adding their initiate grade to the Magic Loss Test or something.

This gives the player an option, albeit one that he has to actively pursue and sacrifice something (another metamagic technique) in exchange for. It also simultaneously makes it an option for other players and thus keeps it fair all around.
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RedmondLarry
post Aug 12 2004, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE (Bossemanden @ Aug 11 2004, 04:44 PM)
I just sent my player a mail where I explained that Im gonna use the good/evil coin every time he hits deadly (I also explained that whining about this will only result in the coin showing evil every time).

Bossemanden, I'm not sure you understand that he only rolls for Magic Loss when he takes a deadly wound all at once. Two or three people have said this, but your words don't seem to match that rule.
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Deacon
post Aug 12 2004, 10:38 AM
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Personally, I'd tell him that he checks for Magic Loss like everyone's been saying above, and if he don't like it, tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out. This is your game, not his. If he wants to whine and bitch and moan, he can do it somewhere else.
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Bossemanden
post Aug 12 2004, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (OurTeam)
Bossemanden, I'm not sure you understand that he only rolls for Magic Loss when he takes a deadly wound all at once. Two or three people have said this, but your words don't seem to match that rule.

No you are right. I didnt understand that. Thanks for clarifying.
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The White Dwarf
post Aug 12 2004, 11:51 AM
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Got a page ref on that? I remember it reading where if you hit deadly on the monitor (be it 10 lights, 4 mods, or 1 deadly) thats when you check. There a spot it specifically says the magic loss check is only if you take a deadly level single hit? If so this rule is going to be a lot less of an issue... to take deadly in one go you almost have to shoot yourself =/
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