IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Question about anthroform drones.
McGravin
post Aug 12 2004, 09:46 PM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 12-August 04
Member No.: 6,559



I'm new to the DS forums, but I've been reading up on drone and vehicle design and I've hit upon a snag that I can't work out. Can anyone help me?

So Rigger 2 says that anthroforms "... have not replaced metahuman workers except in high-risk hazard areas, such as nuclear power plants and ultra-heavy industrial work areas." and then goes on to say that they have two mechanical arms equivalent to cyberarms. Mechanical arms have a base strength rating equal to the vehicle's body squared, so on an anthroform (which has a body of 2) the arms have a strength of 4. Both of these numbers seem small for drones designed for "ultra-heavy industrial" work, but we can assume they also have smaller anthroform drones not built to troll scale and used for not quite so heavy work.

Now here's the part that I take issue with: mechanical arms can lift up to (Strength Rating x 50) kg, but the biggest load any walker powerplant (there aren't any anthroform-specific powerplants listed) can handle is 30 kg. That means that the drone can lift 200 kg, but it can't move when holding the load; it can only carry items up to 30 kg. So Rigger 2 is telling me that a drone designed for "ultra-heavy industrial" work can lift ultra-heavy industrial components, but it can't carry them anywhere?

It seems to me that anthroforms must be a special case when looking up walker power plants. Anyone have any insight on this? Any house rules? Even just doubling the base and maximum loads for anthroform powerplants would make it far more believable.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Aug 12 2004, 09:51 PM
Post #2


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



QUOTE
Both of these numbers seem small for drones designed for "ultra-heavy industrial" work,
They are not meant for "heavy duty industrial" liek lifting 20 ton weights. Cyberarms are alo bad at very heavy lifting as they are cost prohibitive. They are meant for situations that are too dangerous or inhospitable to humans, excatly like the example given, in a nuclear reactor.

Remember, NO anthroform drone is a replacement for a forklift or such, they just aren't meant for that. A drone can move with more than it's listed load it just sufferes a penalty to the piloting roll.

Really anthroform drones are as ill suited to heavy lifting as you think they are.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McGravin
post Aug 12 2004, 10:00 PM
Post #3


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 12-August 04
Member No.: 6,559



If all they're meant to do in industrial or hazardous situation is pull levers and turn cranks, why bother having them at all? Why not just use a wheeled or tracked drone with a pair of mechanical arms?

With the given rules, the only advantage I can see for a rigger on the street to have an anthro drone is that it could go up or down steep stairs that would defeat a wheeled or tracked drone.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Aug 12 2004, 10:13 PM
Post #4


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



In the real world there is really no job except for the very very specialized that cannot be done just as well by a wheeled or tracked drone. Right. That's why the development of anthroform drones is usually kind of silly. Obviously they havent spent a lot of time devloping them in SR either, because they aren't very good.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Skeptical Clown
post Aug 12 2004, 10:45 PM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 256
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,709



I would imagine that anthroform drones are only going to be used in situations where the function of a human being is needed, but the risks are unacceptably high. Thus, situations that involve probable exposure to dangerous levels of radiation, corrosive or toxic chemicals, dangerous levels of air or water pressure, or even just a high risk of falling or getting hit by loose objects. Certainly, their uses are going to be highly specialized; you're not going to find them just working in your average factory.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FrostyNSO
post Aug 13 2004, 07:22 AM
Post #6


Resident Legionnaire
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,136
Joined: 8-August 04
From: Usually Work
Member No.: 6,550



anyone here ever dream of drone-rigging a big anthroform stacked with weapons...similar to a mech or something from exo-squad?

I just remember the darn things were so skimpy you barely mount an smg on them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lucyfersam
post Aug 13 2004, 07:41 AM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 226
Joined: 29-July 03
Member No.: 5,137



My advice is to pick up Rigger 3 revised, which has vastly superior rules for anthroforms (like 2 sizes, a body 2 and a body 3) as well as power plants specific for them with load ratings up to 400 using the methane power plant. Rigger 2 is pretty much unusable to make an anthroform, and while Rigger 3 had its problems, they say the revised version helped quite a bit, and even the base version was a huge step above Rigger 2.

As for your problems with them Frosty, you can treat robotic arms as cyberlimbs, and make modifications to them as per the cyberlimb rules, so you can mount whatever weapons you could put in a cyber limb on them. Or just have them carry a massive gun.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FrostyNSO
post Aug 13 2004, 07:58 AM
Post #8


Resident Legionnaire
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,136
Joined: 8-August 04
From: Usually Work
Member No.: 6,550



That would work I guess..but I was wanting a multi-launcher mounted above the shoulder, a left arm that is not an arm, but just a big laser or something....you know...kid stuff

they need a body 7 anthroform! j/k
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Johnson
post Aug 13 2004, 08:24 AM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 541
Joined: 2-August 04
From: South Africa
Member No.: 6,531



Well thay is interesting. I have not read rigger 3 revised or even rigger 3.

Looking at the body relation to carrying. Well what happened to hydrolics.
Lets try soemthing simple out of game machanics.
Lift 50KG in one arm. what hydrolic pressure would you need in relation to your size of the piston which is picking it up. With Tech in 2060 it would be very easy.
Now using servos would be a different story, as this would mean gears stripping and large amount of current. Best suited to this I would say is Hydrolics as your pump would not consume large amount of strain, but yet pump at a constant speed there for determining you final pressure.

In the case of heavy lifters here you are going to have problems. You could find that the Body is only 2, BUT with Exo Skeleton reinforcement you would be able to in crease carry load. Wieght of skeleton x 2.5 or maybe 3.
Exo wieght 200 KG x say 3 = 600 KG well for a body 2 wimp thats cool.

SO Exo 300 KG well that nearly a metric ton lifting power.

I hope this make sence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jonah
post Aug 13 2004, 12:45 PM
Post #10


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: 24-October 03
From: Australia
Member No.: 5,758



:spin:
Or just get a good ol arthroform with some cosmetic touches (like rubber skin), stack on some Vehicle armour then cover in a nice big trench coat...
Watch it shrug off small arms fire...Terminator style.

Oh yeh, they are robots, not Power Frames...but there is always house rules (we recentlt made the APU out of Matrix...its a loader come weapons platform).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Aug 13 2004, 03:39 PM
Post #11


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



No anthroform can mount enough armor to stop heavy pistol fire IIRC.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Aug 13 2004, 03:59 PM
Post #12


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



a large electric fuel cell anthroform with maxed load can carry 11 points of vehicle armor, or 83 points of personal armor. i don't see any limitations on max armor rating in the section on armor in R3.

edit: your paltry earthling maths failed me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
KarmaInferno
post Aug 13 2004, 04:01 PM
Post #13


Old Man Jones
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,415
Joined: 26-February 02
From: New York
Member No.: 1,699



QUOTE (BitBasher @ Aug 13 2004, 03:39 PM)
No anthroform can mount enough armor to stop heavy pistol fire IIRC.

Well, it IS "hardened" as a vehicle-class armor, so...

I have played an anthroform-drone (operated by a paraplegic rigger) before, like mentioned above with a synthetic skinned head, and a trenchcoat to cover the rest of the shiny bits. My team thought I was just playing a heavily cybered street sam for a while, til the head of the drone got taken off in a fight.

:)


-karma

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Aug 13 2004, 04:03 PM
Post #14


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



also true. 5 points of vehicle armor is usually enough to stop most heavy pistols, unless the shooter is pretty skilled.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Aug 13 2004, 04:03 PM
Post #15


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



err, a heavy pistol is what? 9M right? so with the vehicle armor rules thats 4L before armor. the biggest anthro have body 3, so 4 points of armor becomes 180 in load. hit it with electric fuel cell and we have 500 load to work with (im going by rigger, not revised. and i have not checked the errata).

it can handle 3 firmpoints (rifle or lower) or 1 hardpoint and 1 firmpoint so you can get some missiles on it if it can take the load :)

1 launch system for the hardpoint (missile racks and missiles dont take up points, only load) and 1 automatic rifle or similar with a ammo bin. do carryed/held items come of the load rating? maybe some spurs or similar in the arms if you feel like being sadistic ;)

go to town!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cray74
post Aug 13 2004, 04:03 PM
Post #16


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,428
Joined: 9-June 02
Member No.: 2,860



QUOTE (Johnson)
Lift 50KG in one arm. what hydrolic pressure would you need in relation to your size of the piston which is picking it up. With Tech in 2060 it would be very easy.

I've always been partial to smart plastics, like the fabled myomer of Battletech. Hydraulics run into power-to-weight limitations.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
McGravin
post Aug 13 2004, 05:03 PM
Post #17


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Joined: 12-August 04
Member No.: 6,559



I'll have to check out R3R, then. The only problem with that is that my friends and I are using strict 2nd Ed. rules and a timeline somewhere in the mid 2050's. Even those paltry 2-body anthros might not be available on the market, yet.

However, I was looking at the rules for cyberlimbs, and I decided it's better to forget about mounting weapons on an anthro with firmpoints or hardpoints. Just have him mount some guns in his arms, a cyberholster in either leg, and maybe some other toys.


But I have some questions. Since the rules for cyberlimbs say they add to Body, would you technically roll 5 dice when the anthro takes damage? Since you're firing by aiming through a drone's sensors, but the weapon isn't affixed to a firmpoint on the drone, do you still use Smartlink? If not, you could install a Smartlink system in the cyberarm and wire it into the drone's sensors so it would broadcast the information back to the rigger. And saying an anthro can't have enough armor to stop a heavy pistol is silly, since they're metahuman sized and can wear armored clothing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Aug 14 2004, 10:58 AM
Post #18


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



about artificial muscle fibres, i recall reading about some fibres that shunk when electric current was applyed to them mutch in the same way as living muscle. how mutch a bundle of it could support tho i dont know, but as its a stable mass rather then fluid pressure like what a hydraulic system is i would guess its not that bad...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Link
post Aug 14 2004, 02:47 PM
Post #19


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 519
Joined: 27-August 02
From: Queensland
Member No.: 3,180



QUOTE
Since the rules for cyberlimbs say they add to Body, would you technically roll 5 dice when the anthro takes damage?


No, the increase to Body represents the cyberlimbs ability to resist damage better than the metahuman meat they replace.

Smartlinks would work.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BitBasher
post Aug 14 2004, 06:27 PM
Post #20


Traumatizing players since 1992
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,282
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 220



Okay wow, I don't remember anthros having the load to do that last time I wanted to do this. Hmmmmm...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jonah
post Aug 15 2004, 01:04 PM
Post #21


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: 24-October 03
From: Australia
Member No.: 5,758



As stated, with enough dosh an arthroform can be PHAT...
Had a system called ANDReW in my game where an armoured up arthroform is dropped in by redball express drone (which the provided air support with turrets etc). Arthro had a LMG ;)
Stood for Autonomous - Nutralization / Destruction - Robotic Weapon
A great way to clear out a runners hide away without losing fleshy employees.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Aug 16 2004, 12:24 AM
Post #22


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



oops, forgot something when i was going over the anthros. that big guy with body 3 is supposedly the size of a automobile and 300-750 kg! no way this one can hide as a human. but as a ed-209 remake i think it can do just fine :)

this means 4 points of armor costs 80 load, and with a max of 200 that leaves 120 to play around with useing a fuel cell system. it allso have the limitation of 2 firmpoints or 1 hardpoint.

hmm, a large anthroform can allso be converted into a kind of power armor. just give it a bucket seat and a vehicle control rig ;) still, the craming of gear into it will take a lot of sacrifices tho as you only have 10 CF to work with and 6 of those goes to the bucket seat :( and if its going to do combat duty it will need a higher sensor rating...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lindt
post Aug 16 2004, 03:01 PM
Post #23


Man In The Machine
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,264
Joined: 26-February 02
From: I-495 S
Member No.: 1,105



no, you cant have sex with them. What? That wasent the question? Damm...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th April 2024 - 09:43 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.