 Surprise and melee combat |
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 Aug 18 2004, 10:13 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 4-January 04 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 5,958  |
Hopefully this is an easy question and I am just not finding rules description for this.
If someone is surprised, and attacked in melee (Edged Weapons, Cyber Combat, Unarmed Combat, Martial Arts, etc.), can they counter using an appropriate skill? i.e. Edged Weapon, Unarmed, etc. To be clear, in the reaction test Player A gets 4 successes in the Reaction test against Guard B, and the Guard gets 3 successes. Now the Guard can not take an action action against Player A, and he is attacked by Player A with a katana. Guard B is carrying his Stun Baton, can he parry the attack? My first impression would be no, he is surprised, however I couldnt find a ruling to support that. I have had players claim that even though they are suprised they always get to counter. |
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Aug 18 2004, 10:28 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 19-March 03 From: Central IL Member No.: 4,278 |
He is aware of the attack so he should get a roll to defend, but I don't think he can use combat pool at all. No books with me, so not sure on this.
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Aug 18 2004, 10:32 PM
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#3
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
The person surprised would get no combat pool and could only use full defense. That would be completely within the rules. But, and this is big, the person who rolled lowest, (didn't beat anyone) would get no roll as per the rules.
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Aug 18 2004, 10:48 PM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
A Surprised character doesn't even get to use full defense; you don't get to do anything that directly affects, impedes, or counters a character who beat you in the Surprise Test. Damage Resistance and other passive Resistance Tests (like spell resistance) is about all you have going for you, and even then you can't use your Combat Pool to help out.
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Aug 18 2004, 11:03 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Similar question: let's say a PC has cyber implant combat, but no hand to hand combat skills. An NPC charges him and attacks in hand to hand. The PC had his SMG out, and has Retractable Cyber Spurs which aren't out. Can the PC whip his spurs out in response and fight, or is he treated as having no skill until his turn when he can unsheath the spurs?
JaronK |
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Aug 18 2004, 11:13 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
He could default to HTH from Cyber-Implant weapons, but unless he has them out, he needs to defualt.
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Sep 17 2004, 07:41 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,641 |
Isn't poping out spurs a free action?
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Sep 17 2004, 07:44 PM
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#8
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Jesus Freak Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,141 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Anaheim, CA Member No.: 6,274 |
Yes, but he doesn't have any actions at all, not even free.
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Sep 17 2004, 07:51 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,641 |
::chuckle:: Sorry, since the names and types of actions in Shadowrun and D&D are so similar, I mix and match sometimes. In D7D you get a free action on everyone else's turn too. "He's attacking me? I spend my free action to draw my spurs"
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Sep 17 2004, 08:10 PM
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#10
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Jesus Freak Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,141 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Anaheim, CA Member No.: 6,274 |
<Shakes fist at you, then points at the Shadowrun GenCon sign>
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Sep 17 2004, 08:10 PM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,950 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
IIRC he actually does, he just can't use any of them against anyone who surprised him. ~J |
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Sep 17 2004, 08:11 PM
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#12
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Jesus Freak Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,141 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Anaheim, CA Member No.: 6,274 |
True.
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Sep 17 2004, 08:16 PM
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#13
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,950 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
So in this case he'd deploy his cyberspurs, but it wouldn't actually do him any good 'till the non-surprise round came up.
~J |
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Sep 17 2004, 10:25 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 172 Joined: 16-September 04 From: UK Member No.: 6,671 |
Its how you knife someone in the back...
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Sep 17 2004, 11:21 PM
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#15
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Because he wouldn't get to roll to counterattack, right. |
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Sep 17 2004, 11:58 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Wait, if it wasn't a surprise round, can you pop out your spurs when someone attacks you? Let's say there's a guy with a Kitana charging you, you shoot him, but fail to take him down, and he attacks you. Can you pop out the spurs when he engages you in hand to hand?
JaronK |
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Sep 18 2004, 12:00 AM
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#17
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Yes, every character receives a free action on the action of other characters. Unless your GM says no, which isn't uncommon.
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Sep 18 2004, 03:09 AM
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#18
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
So you don't get to pop spurs till after you've been attacked, unless you do it on a prior phase. And, of course, you can not take a Free Action prior to your first Combat Phase in the first Initiative Pass. |
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Sep 18 2004, 03:18 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 23-February 03 Member No.: 4,141 |
Only if you already acted at least once in the round. If you are too slow to see it coming you can't react to it. |
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Sep 18 2004, 05:22 AM
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#20
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Rory, that's only during the first Initiative Pass.
Kanada Ten, if two characters both act during the same Phase you only get one Free Action that Phase. |
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