 Ally spirits and metamagic question |
  |
 Aug 25 2004, 08:54 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 24-April 03 Member No.: 4,506  |
Hi. My character is thinking about taking an initiation ordeal of familiar and I wanted to know if the familiar/ally spirit can learn metamagic techniques; assuming you set aside enough karma for the familiar to do an initiation.
Is this possible and if so how do you guys handle it?? |
 |
 
|
|
Aug 25 2004, 08:55 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Jesus Freak Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,141 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Anaheim, CA Member No.: 6,274 |
Not that I know of. It can learn spells and skills, but I think thats it.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 25 2004, 09:02 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 11-August 04 Member No.: 6,556 |
Yeah. It doesn't explicitly say in MITS whether or not an ally spirit can learn a metamagic technique or not.
Can an Ally spirit take an initiation I guess is the real question assuming they have enough karma?? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 25 2004, 10:48 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
No. No kind of spirit can initiate. Free spirits can theoretically learn new powers by increasing their Force, but that's it.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2004, 12:03 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Unrelated, but interesting question:
Free Spirits can teach metamagical techniques, by canon. How come they cannot use those techniques as well? (Or can they?) |
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2004, 02:27 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Free spirits can teach metamagic techniques similar to powers they know.
Prime example: Masking If you happen to have a free spirit of significance, you may be able to negotiate the GM into letting it take a metamagic-like power when it increases it's force. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2004, 11:37 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Well, yes. In MITS on pg.70 it says that Free Spirits can teach metamagics similar to their powers, as follows:
Free Spirit with Aura Masking can teach Masking. Free Spirit with Possession can teach Possessing. Free Spirit with Divination can teach Divining. Any free spirit can teach Invoking (but charges double for it, usually). Free Spirit with Sorcery can teach Quickening, Shielding and Reflecting. But nowhere does it say that their Sorcery power allows them to use the benefits of those techniques. If they can teach it, they should be able to use it, right? |
|
|
|
|
Aug 26 2004, 11:47 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
|
Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
That's a very, very scary thought. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2004, 12:50 AM
Post
#9
|
|||
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
That's not necessarily sound logic, although it may look like it on the surface. A mundane human can teach spell design and create spell formula despite not being able to cast a spell. being able to teach something does not necessarily mean you can do it at all.
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2004, 01:02 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
[Warning, untested hause rule ahead, proceed at your PCs' risk!]
Considering they need to get three powers to use sorcery in full, let them use any metamagic based off each specialization once they have seen it in use. Not sure how this gets messed up with freed ally spirits, but it shouldn't be too bad with other free spirits. With sorcery, a spirit has the potential to quicken spells, but doesn't neccessarily know that it can until it has seen how easy the process is. With this variant of the rule, the GM can be even pickier about what metamagics you can learn from a free spirit, and can make a free spirit match your advantages as long as it survives one encounter that you use them. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2004, 02:00 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 167 Joined: 11-August 04 Member No.: 6,556 |
But can an ally spirit learn new metamagic techniques; either through an initiation or from another free spirit??
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2004, 03:54 PM
Post
#12
|
|||
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Not by the rules IIRC. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Aug 27 2004, 06:44 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
I've always allowed ally spirits to learn metamagic techniques that were based on a skill -- centering, divination, etc. These techniques, as I see them, are taught to the initiate by the group or, for a self-initiation, by a process of self-discovery. As a result, the initiate could now teach them to others, including their ally.
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27 2004, 10:25 PM
Post
#14
|
|||||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Very true, Bitbasher - but all the other examples require the spirit to have practical knowledge of the technique, and for Shielding, Reflecting and Quickening they have to have the Sorcery power. Now, if it was just their existance as spirits that did it, there would be no requirement on having a certain power. If it was simply theoretical know-how, the power itself shouldn't be necessary either. The spirit should be able to learn how to teach this without knowing how to cast spells - after all, Shielding has very little to do with spellcasting (yes, I know - it requires Sorcery skill. But a spirit could have the power Magical Guard and innately know how to do exactly the same thing (Spell Defense) as they know by having Sorcery. Also, your example isn't the best one. A mundane can create spell formula, yes, by having the Spell Design skill. Yes, they can teach others Spell Design. But this isn't teaching them something they can't do themselves. Teaching Conjuring or Sorcery, however, requires the skill in question - a skill mundanes can only have as a background skill. I'm not entirely sure, but canon-wise I think a teacher cannot teach someone how to use an active skill simply by having the Background skill. I might be wrong though. In either case, the mundane has to have a skill (active or background) in order to teach how to use that skill. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Oct 7 2004, 06:34 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 9-October 02 Member No.: 3,430 |
I have a physical shaman character that i may want to take the familiar ordeal with.
If using the ordeal it says that the mage does not lose a point of magic for creating the ally. What would the magic rating of the physical shaman be after the ordeal and initiation? would it be 6 or 7? If its 7 could the physical part of the mix pick up more adept powers? Just curious how this would work. |
|
|
|
|
Oct 8 2004, 03:50 AM
Post
#16
|
|||
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
7 and yes. While by canon Physmages are more restricted in their initiation choices, he can choose to gain a power point which can be spent on any adept ability, including his special ability of Magical Power. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th April 2024 - 04:40 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.