Cannon Companion question, 57C Options

[AK404]

I wanna know something here. What makes the 57C heavy pistol so special that it demands an Availability of 9?

Also, why did FASA simply reprint out the old availability and street indexes of all the weapons instead of rebalancing them? For example, a CDMT has a higher availability and street index than a SPAS-22, I believe.

And just because I've completely forgotten where to find the rules, what're the advantages of using a smartlink-II over using the original SL in SR3 again?

[The_Sarge]

Smartlink question:

Indirect fire.
Rangefinder.

I think these were the two main advancements.

[Zeel De Mort]

Better called shots with a SL2 as well. p31 M&M

FN 5-7C: Because it's a machine pistol.

SM-CMDT: No good reason. :)

[Andvare]

SM-CMDT is a combat shotgun for the military.
The Spas (In Danish nicknamed the "spas-mager" ie. the "fun-maker") is a police/SWAT shotgun, closer to the street and (should be?) is more illegal acording to present U.S. laws (concealability (sp?)).

SL-2.
Better TN's at long + extreme ranges (with range finder) (2/3/3/5 vs 2/3/4/7).
Better indirect fire.
Reduced scatter (with range finder).
All very good reasons to buy it. Plus you get a better crosshair on your vission.

[Doc Sportscar]

Actually, I think the people who really won out with the SL2 are the bloopers among us. Combo a smartlink 2, a rangefinder, and a grenade link, and drop minigrenades on your foes from a hundred meters off with pinpoint accuracy. (As opposed to the basic grenade launcher scatter, which can end up with the grenade coming back at you more often that I'd really like :D )

As for the 5-7, I thought the Avail increase was due to its BF capability. No idea what the deal is with the shotguns, save to say that those numbers always seemed a bit wonky to me too.

[Glyph]

My personal opinion on the FN 5-7C is that it uses the same rules for its bursts as the Ingram SuperMach 100, but they forgot to put it in - something for the errata, maybe. I mean, that's the only reason that I can think of for a light machine pistol to be stuck in there with the heavy pistols. The "extremely high velocity" in the flavor text, and its higher Availability compared to other machine pistols, also reinforce this opinion.

[Raygun]

The real FN Five-seveN fires a high velocity, low recoil PDW cartridge that is designed to defeat common forms of body armor. Because the bullet moves so quickly (making its trajectory very flat), it is less difficult to engage targets at long range with this pistol in relation to more conventional pistols. The downside is that the bullet is very small and loses energy quickly, meaning that it likely won't cause that much tissue damage, especially at longer ranges (not that that matters in SR).

Now, relating that information to the 5-7C in CC, we can see why a pistol with a 6L Damage Code (I'm guessing) is classified as a Heavy Pistol; in order to extend its range (range seems to be something that's consistently overlooked by Shadowrun players). As for its availability rating, any automatic firearm certainly should have a higher availability than a comparable semi-auto firearm because they are certainly more controlled in almost any society on the planet. Add to that the fact that the Five-SeveN was designed from the beginning to defeat body armor identical to the kind that police commonly wear. (Don't have CC, don't know if that's reflected in the rules. It should be.)

As for giving the 5-7C autofire bonuses like the SuperMach, I wouldn't do it. While the 5.7x28mm generates about two-thirds the recoil of the 9mm Para, it still generates recoil, and that recoil is still going to throw your aim off. That said, I think a BF or FA version of the Five-seveN is a decent idea in reality as well as in the game. When it comes to these PDW cartridges, the more bullets flying the better.

[Phylos Fett]

As always - Raygun shall show us the way! :notworthy:

[Arethusa]

The thing you're forgetting is that the canon difference in range between a light pistol and a heavy pistol is a whopping 10 meters. Face it: the Five-seveN C is a joke. Firing one of its amazing bursts allows you to stage up the power to 9 and the damage to M. Sound familiar? But it's still getting better. The weapon remains less effective against hardened armor than a heavy pistol, consumes ammunition at three times speed, fires with a +2 recoil modifier on the first shot (1 point of compensation factored in) and a +5 on the second instead of a heavy pistol's +0 and +1, respectively, and only gets to do this a whopping 6 times before loosing a burst at 8L (or one last burst at 9M assuming the weapon wasn't reloaded dry) and needing a reload. They don't come much crappier than that. I'd better stop before I make some disparaging comments about Mike Mulvihill.

[Raygun]

[Rain]

You always please me, baby.

[Raygun]

What can I say, Rain. You're like a long-lost girlfriend! :oops:

[Rain]

I missed you too, snuggles.

[motorfirebox]

next week, on Jerry Springer--big, bad, manly men and the big, bad, manly men that turn them to squishy, squealy, girly girls.

[AK404]

Admittedly, I'd much rather use Raygun's Five-seveN than the one introduced in the CC, but if a GM tries to stick with the CC version, I'd probably toss some history of the 5.7mm at him and demand APDS-esque abilities...which is basically what Raygun's gun does already. :spin:

[Glyph]

Does anyone have the old Fields of Fire book? I would be interested in how they handled the FN 5-7C in that book. I still think they intended to use the super-velocity rules for this gun (although unless you are a troll with a cyberarm gyromount, the recoil makes that ability pretty useless: +5 TN for the first burst, and +11 TN for the second burst). I don't think it being an burst fire-capable pistol is enough to account for the high Availability, considering that all of the other machine pistols are within a starting character's Availability limits.

[last_of_the_grea...]

[Frag-o Delux]

I can't find the 57C in Fields of Fire so I think it is a new weapon to third edition.

[Raygun]

[BitBasher]

And on that note, here at the LVMPD we wound never allow the Five7 because of the ridiculous amount of blowthrough it has on targets. That ammo does not stop when it hits a normal human target. And when we want that kind of blowthrough or penetration is desired, that's why the keep an AR-15 in the trunk if they feel so inclined.