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> Air-Timed MiniGrenades, Where are the rules for ^^^
Dashifen
post Sep 8 2004, 02:51 AM
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Greetings Dumpshockers,

Re-reading grenade rules tonight since my players seem to have a fetish for them, I ran across this sentance in CC:

QUOTE ("page 107 @ CC")
Note that air-timed minigrenades explode in the same combat phase in which they are launched


This is a quote taken out of context from the Throwing Back Grenades rules.

So: Where are the rules for air timed minigrenades? I couldn't find anything on them in the grenades section of the combat chapter in SR3 nor in the ammunition and explosives chapter of CC. Back in street gear page 282-283 SR3 it mentions that minigrenades are launched from a grenade launcher and cannot be thrown without altering their arming mechanism. Is that what is meant by "air timing" a minigrenade?

Edit: Messed up the quote.
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mfb
post Sep 8 2004, 02:54 AM
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minigrenades in SR can be air-timed through the use of a grenade link. that's what that quote is referencing.
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Smiley
post Sep 8 2004, 03:05 AM
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You have to have a SL-II and a rangefinder to air time them.
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Dashifen
post Sep 8 2004, 03:48 AM
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What's the grenade link? Is that just a synonym for a smartlinked grenade launcher or is it a specific piece of cyberware. I couldn't find it in the MM index.
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xizor
post Sep 8 2004, 04:40 AM
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a grenade link is a part that you add to a grenade launcher to improve performance. the grenade link determines the range to the target and then air times the mini grenades to explode closer to the target. This piece of equipment is in the CC on page 32.

hmm after reading through the description again, it does not state that you need a smart link to use it.
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Cain
post Sep 8 2004, 04:40 AM
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It's in CC, p 32. It requires a rangefinder, but not a smartlink.
[edit] Damn you fast typers!
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Smiley
post Sep 8 2004, 05:38 AM
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I knew it was something like that.
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Dashifen
post Sep 9 2004, 11:35 AM
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Sweet. I love you guys :)
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Espiritu
post Sep 9 2004, 04:25 PM
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Quick question on Mini grenades.
Can a minigrenade be alternated between timed and an impact explosive individually like a Hand Grenade can? Is this a selectable option to the Minigrenade while it is chambered?
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spotlite
post Sep 9 2004, 05:14 PM
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I suppose if it was smartlinked I can't see why not.
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RangerJoe
post Sep 9 2004, 06:43 PM
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Seeing as shotguns can sport accessories in underbarrel mounts, top mounts, and (apparently, according to BBB) barrel mounts, is there anything stopping a PC from loading a rangefinder+grenadelink and an underbarrel greande launcher onto the combat shotgun of his/her choice? Gives new meaning to the term "boomstick."
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Espiritu
post Sep 9 2004, 06:44 PM
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Er.. I meant to ask specifically, do Minigrenades have the option of switching between impact and timed as one unit? Or are they a device that is either impact or timed individually?
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Necro Tech
post Sep 9 2004, 11:43 PM
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IN SR3 the answer is fuzzy at best. SR2 had air timed mini grendes sold seperately. Want delayed blast, just buy normal ones. With the GL being a device, you could just rig an on/off switch to get the effect you desire. By the way, do they make UBGL's that don't go off on impact? I thought that was the point because the things have a very small kill radius.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Sep 10 2004, 07:20 AM
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QUOTE (Necro Tech)
By the way, do they make UBGL's that don't go off on impact?

IRL? Nope, at least I've never heard of any grenade launcher rounds that aren't set off by impact. Excluding air-timed GL rounds, of course, but those are mostly still in prototype phase and not in use by any militaries. I have never heard of a grenade launcher round designed to detonate after a fixed amount of time long enough to usually happen after impact -- such a grenade would utterly suck in 99% of all GL usage, so why the hell bother? In other words, all those bouncy GL rounds you've seen in games like Quake (and kin), Jagged Alliance 2, etc are bullshit.

Since rifle grenades (grenades launched from the muzzle of a rifle instead of a separate mounted barrel, often with no propellant of their own) used to be nothing but hand grenades (timed normally) launched with the propellant gases of a blank rifle rounds, it wouldn't surprise me if there had been similar, timed GL rounds in the very, very early days of modern GLs. Since they certainly aren't around anymore, I suppose the designers of those weapons reached the same conclusion as I concerning their effectiveness.
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Canid13
post Sep 28 2004, 10:36 AM
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According to the updated M&M and CC, a Rangefinder is a two part accessory for Smartlink 2 only - the cybermod (0.1 Essence and nY2000) and the weapon mod (underbarrel, nY150). Once you have both of these, then you can get the Grenade Link which will enable your minigrenades to go off in your Combat Phase, not one initiative pass later.

As for the RL question, the US DoD is working on something akin, and the FABR project's 20mm multipurpose cannon was also 'air timed' meaning it could program a minigrenade to detonate after travelling a set distance.
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Zenmaxer
post Sep 28 2004, 02:12 PM
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alternatively you can use extremely short fuse settings to get a static air burst or set a maximum range for your GL without an actual grenade link. This can be very dangerous though in many situations, as I doubt you could reset the fuses quickly
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Blaze
post Sep 28 2004, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (RangerJoe)
Seeing as shotguns can sport accessories in underbarrel mounts, top mounts, and (apparently, according to BBB) barrel mounts, is there anything stopping a PC from loading a rangefinder+grenadelink and an underbarrel greande launcher onto the combat shotgun of his/her choice? Gives new meaning to the term "boomstick."

Yep, a shotgun can quite easily be fitted with an internal Smartlink-II, top-mounted Rangefinder, underbarrel grenade launcher and grenade link (starting with a SPAS-22 saves you the first step). Also, if you're building a firearm from scratch (CC Custom Firearm rules), you could give it dual clips to allow you the three-way choice of slugs, buckshot or grenades. Load it with stun shells, hollowpoint slugs and CS gas or Concussion/Flash grenades for riot control duty...

-JH.
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Canid13
post Sep 28 2004, 02:29 PM
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I like that idea. Gives me some ideas it does }:o)
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RangerJoe
post Sep 28 2004, 03:05 PM
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Having just come to grips with the fact that I have lost all finesse in my life, it's time to break out the CC rules and build that puppy.... and the troll to carry it.
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Canid13
post Sep 28 2004, 03:14 PM
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Why's it have to be a troll? My human wolf shaman carries a fully comp'd assault rifle with UBGL and he's only STR 5.

What's wrong with a weapon which is only a little bigger than the MP5 but kicks out 10S with all the fire modes, has twin clips and a UBGL? Makes it so much easier to hide under a long coat if it's shorter, and bullpup is soooo nice I can't imagine not using it for a long arm :o)
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Austere Emancipa...
post Sep 28 2004, 03:15 PM
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Mount an Ares Antioch on the BoomStick Mk I, then another Ares Antioch on the first Ares Antioch, etc, until you have enough Ares Antiochs to have a nice number of all possibly useful grenade types at your disposal. Twelve should be enough.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Sep 28 2004, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (Canid13)
What's wrong with a weapon which is only a little bigger than the MP5 but kicks out 10S with all the fire modes, has twin clips and a UBGL?

The same thing as with the Conc 9 Assault Rifle: it makes no fucking sense at all. Excluding that, nothing really.
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Canid13
post Sep 28 2004, 03:48 PM
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Depends on what you call an assault rifle though. the M733 is like 2 foot long if you remove the stock, yet it'll kick out as much lead as an M16 or any of the other armalites.

Can you get to Conc 8? I thought the highest for an AR was 6..... and that was dubious.
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hobgoblin
post Sep 28 2004, 03:52 PM
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as long as the price skyrockets i dont have a problem with it ;)
hmm, one could go the way and say that the assault rifle uses a new kind of ammo system to allow for that small size, like say seperate bullet and "!gun powder" (most likely replaced with some sort of gas or something in liquid form).

allso, im not sure i would allow a person to mount a weapon onto a weapon mounted to a weapon, if you understand where im getting at (atleast not without combineing the weight of said weapons).
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Austere Emancipa...
post Sep 28 2004, 04:04 PM
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If you completely remove the stock, except for the bit required by the action for proper functioning, you could probably get the M177/M733 down to 2 feet. With the stock retracted it's 680mm, and it has a 280mm (11") barrel. The H&K HK53 ultrashort carbine is 563mm with the stock retracted, and has a 211mm (8.3") barrel -- at that point you're losing a lot of muzzle velocity, meaning pretty crappy range (and absolutely no fragmentation for the standard 5.56mm FMJ rounds). Recoil becomes ever worse as you lose support as well.

Adding an M203 or other UB GL under either of these will make the weapon basically rectangular with the stock retracted, adding a whole lot to the overall "volume" or size of the weapon. Adding one will make the HK53 about as large as the M177, at least when the stock is extended. Going bull-pup won't help significantly here, since the grenade launcher will stick just as far in front of the weapon.

The H&K MP5 is 490mm long with the stock retracted, and a full 4" shorter with the stock extended. And, without the UB GL, we're talking about 1/4th the fore-end size as with the AR.

I was wrong about the AR concealability. The max is 7 using just the Design Options, 3 base + 2 Barrel Reduction + 2 Bullpup/ImpConc-2.
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