 Air-Timed MiniGrenades, Where are the rules for ^^^ |
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 Sep 8 2004, 02:51 AM
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#1
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Technomancer  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374  |
Greetings Dumpshockers, Re-reading grenade rules tonight since my players seem to have a fetish for them, I ran across this sentance in CC:
This is a quote taken out of context from the Throwing Back Grenades rules. So: Where are the rules for air timed minigrenades? I couldn't find anything on them in the grenades section of the combat chapter in SR3 nor in the ammunition and explosives chapter of CC. Back in street gear page 282-283 SR3 it mentions that minigrenades are launched from a grenade launcher and cannot be thrown without altering their arming mechanism. Is that what is meant by "air timing" a minigrenade? Edit: Messed up the quote. |
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Sep 8 2004, 02:54 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
minigrenades in SR can be air-timed through the use of a grenade link. that's what that quote is referencing.
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Sep 8 2004, 03:05 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
You have to have a SL-II and a rangefinder to air time them.
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Sep 8 2004, 03:48 AM
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#4
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
What's the grenade link? Is that just a synonym for a smartlinked grenade launcher or is it a specific piece of cyberware. I couldn't find it in the MM index.
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Sep 8 2004, 04:40 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 16-August 03 Member No.: 5,501 |
a grenade link is a part that you add to a grenade launcher to improve performance. the grenade link determines the range to the target and then air times the mini grenades to explode closer to the target. This piece of equipment is in the CC on page 32.
hmm after reading through the description again, it does not state that you need a smart link to use it. |
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Sep 8 2004, 04:40 AM
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#6
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
It's in CC, p 32. It requires a rangefinder, but not a smartlink.
[edit] Damn you fast typers! |
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Sep 8 2004, 05:38 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
I knew it was something like that.
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Sep 9 2004, 11:35 AM
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#8
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Sweet. I love you guys :)
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Sep 9 2004, 04:25 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604 |
Quick question on Mini grenades.
Can a minigrenade be alternated between timed and an impact explosive individually like a Hand Grenade can? Is this a selectable option to the Minigrenade while it is chambered? |
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Sep 9 2004, 05:14 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 21-October 03 From: Yorkshire Toxic Zone Member No.: 5,752 |
I suppose if it was smartlinked I can't see why not.
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Sep 9 2004, 06:43 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897 |
Seeing as shotguns can sport accessories in underbarrel mounts, top mounts, and (apparently, according to BBB) barrel mounts, is there anything stopping a PC from loading a rangefinder+grenadelink and an underbarrel greande launcher onto the combat shotgun of his/her choice? Gives new meaning to the term "boomstick."
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Sep 9 2004, 06:44 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604 |
Er.. I meant to ask specifically, do Minigrenades have the option of switching between impact and timed as one unit? Or are they a device that is either impact or timed individually?
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Sep 9 2004, 11:43 PM
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#13
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
IN SR3 the answer is fuzzy at best. SR2 had air timed mini grendes sold seperately. Want delayed blast, just buy normal ones. With the GL being a device, you could just rig an on/off switch to get the effect you desire. By the way, do they make UBGL's that don't go off on impact? I thought that was the point because the things have a very small kill radius.
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Sep 10 2004, 07:20 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
IRL? Nope, at least I've never heard of any grenade launcher rounds that aren't set off by impact. Excluding air-timed GL rounds, of course, but those are mostly still in prototype phase and not in use by any militaries. I have never heard of a grenade launcher round designed to detonate after a fixed amount of time long enough to usually happen after impact -- such a grenade would utterly suck in 99% of all GL usage, so why the hell bother? In other words, all those bouncy GL rounds you've seen in games like Quake (and kin), Jagged Alliance 2, etc are bullshit. Since rifle grenades (grenades launched from the muzzle of a rifle instead of a separate mounted barrel, often with no propellant of their own) used to be nothing but hand grenades (timed normally) launched with the propellant gases of a blank rifle rounds, it wouldn't surprise me if there had been similar, timed GL rounds in the very, very early days of modern GLs. Since they certainly aren't around anymore, I suppose the designers of those weapons reached the same conclusion as I concerning their effectiveness. |
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Sep 28 2004, 10:36 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
According to the updated M&M and CC, a Rangefinder is a two part accessory for Smartlink 2 only - the cybermod (0.1 Essence and nY2000) and the weapon mod (underbarrel, nY150). Once you have both of these, then you can get the Grenade Link which will enable your minigrenades to go off in your Combat Phase, not one initiative pass later.
As for the RL question, the US DoD is working on something akin, and the FABR project's 20mm multipurpose cannon was also 'air timed' meaning it could program a minigrenade to detonate after travelling a set distance. |
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Sep 28 2004, 02:12 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
alternatively you can use extremely short fuse settings to get a static air burst or set a maximum range for your GL without an actual grenade link. This can be very dangerous though in many situations, as I doubt you could reset the fuses quickly
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Sep 28 2004, 02:14 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Loughborough, UK Member No.: 1,321 |
Yep, a shotgun can quite easily be fitted with an internal Smartlink-II, top-mounted Rangefinder, underbarrel grenade launcher and grenade link (starting with a SPAS-22 saves you the first step). Also, if you're building a firearm from scratch (CC Custom Firearm rules), you could give it dual clips to allow you the three-way choice of slugs, buckshot or grenades. Load it with stun shells, hollowpoint slugs and CS gas or Concussion/Flash grenades for riot control duty... -JH. |
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Sep 28 2004, 02:29 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
I like that idea. Gives me some ideas it does }:o)
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Sep 28 2004, 03:05 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897 |
Having just come to grips with the fact that I have lost all finesse in my life, it's time to break out the CC rules and build that puppy.... and the troll to carry it.
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Sep 28 2004, 03:14 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
Why's it have to be a troll? My human wolf shaman carries a fully comp'd assault rifle with UBGL and he's only STR 5.
What's wrong with a weapon which is only a little bigger than the MP5 but kicks out 10S with all the fire modes, has twin clips and a UBGL? Makes it so much easier to hide under a long coat if it's shorter, and bullpup is soooo nice I can't imagine not using it for a long arm :o) |
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Sep 28 2004, 03:15 PM
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#21
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Mount an Ares Antioch on the BoomStick Mk I, then another Ares Antioch on the first Ares Antioch, etc, until you have enough Ares Antiochs to have a nice number of all possibly useful grenade types at your disposal. Twelve should be enough.
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Sep 28 2004, 03:17 PM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The same thing as with the Conc 9 Assault Rifle: it makes no fucking sense at all. Excluding that, nothing really. |
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Sep 28 2004, 03:48 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
Depends on what you call an assault rifle though. the M733 is like 2 foot long if you remove the stock, yet it'll kick out as much lead as an M16 or any of the other armalites.
Can you get to Conc 8? I thought the highest for an AR was 6..... and that was dubious. |
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Sep 28 2004, 03:52 PM
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#24
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
as long as the price skyrockets i dont have a problem with it ;)
hmm, one could go the way and say that the assault rifle uses a new kind of ammo system to allow for that small size, like say seperate bullet and "!gun powder" (most likely replaced with some sort of gas or something in liquid form). allso, im not sure i would allow a person to mount a weapon onto a weapon mounted to a weapon, if you understand where im getting at (atleast not without combineing the weight of said weapons). |
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Sep 28 2004, 04:04 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
If you completely remove the stock, except for the bit required by the action for proper functioning, you could probably get the M177/M733 down to 2 feet. With the stock retracted it's 680mm, and it has a 280mm (11") barrel. The H&K HK53 ultrashort carbine is 563mm with the stock retracted, and has a 211mm (8.3") barrel -- at that point you're losing a lot of muzzle velocity, meaning pretty crappy range (and absolutely no fragmentation for the standard 5.56mm FMJ rounds). Recoil becomes ever worse as you lose support as well.
Adding an M203 or other UB GL under either of these will make the weapon basically rectangular with the stock retracted, adding a whole lot to the overall "volume" or size of the weapon. Adding one will make the HK53 about as large as the M177, at least when the stock is extended. Going bull-pup won't help significantly here, since the grenade launcher will stick just as far in front of the weapon. The H&K MP5 is 490mm long with the stock retracted, and a full 4" shorter with the stock extended. And, without the UB GL, we're talking about 1/4th the fore-end size as with the AR. I was wrong about the AR concealability. The max is 7 using just the Design Options, 3 base + 2 Barrel Reduction + 2 Bullpup/ImpConc-2. |
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