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Detritus
post Aug 31 2003, 07:46 AM
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Despite having my luxurious coverless critter 'supplement' that came with the 3e GM screen, I'm still trying to track down the two paranormal animals of ______ books, for the pictures at the very least. I also have the street sam catalogue. Are there any other sourcebooks for previous editions that still have value to the SR3 GM with the new versions? What old adventures are worth investing in?

As a side note, does anyone know a site (or want to post a method) for converting 1st and 2nd edition stats into 3rd?
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Phylos Fett
post Aug 31 2003, 07:54 AM
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Rigger Black Book has some nice vehicle pics.

Cybertechnology has some nice cyber pics.

2nd to 3rd is identical.

1st to 2nd is a bigger change.

What do you want to know?
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Connor
post Aug 31 2003, 08:08 AM
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The question is, does the new Rigger 3 Revised have all of the pictures that appeared in the RBB or is it still lacking some even though they've been added?

Fields of Fire and Shadowtech have lots of nice gear/cyber/bio pictures in them. If you're looking for more than just pictures, almost all of the older books have stuff in them that makes them worth getting. At least, that's what I've found as I've gone back to fill in my collection.

Old adventures that are worth looking around for, Harlequin/Harlequin's Back if you like or don't mind the IE stuff, pretty good modules. I definately enjoyed the old Super Tuesday stuff, although that's not too terribly dated. Unfortunately, I haven't played too many of the older modules, although Dragon Hunt and Queen Euphoria are both rather fun.
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Phylos Fett
post Aug 31 2003, 08:16 AM
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Also - if you are looking for *flavour*, then the earlier editions are more fun. SR3 is as dry as a dog's biscuit...
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Connor
post Aug 31 2003, 08:23 AM
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Yes, the older books have lots of great flavor. That's my main reason for going back and collecting as many as I can. It seems to be assumed that you have every previous SR book when they write a new one, as they overlap info as little as possible.
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Kage2020
post Aug 31 2003, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Detritus:
What old adventures are worth investing in?

To be honest I find the majority of them worthwhile if you can get your hands on them. I have a soft spot in my heart for Maria Mercurial for some reason, but there we go...

QUOTE
Originally posted by Detritus:
As a side note, does anyone know a site (or want to post a method) for converting 1st and 2nd edition stats into 3rd?

Is not conversion between the different editions fairly easy? 1st to 2nd requires getting rid of some of the pools which might have been reintroduced in 3rd... Conversion of the weapons is simple from 1st to 2nd: damage target number and staging number have been integrated (thus 5M4 becomes 9M), etc.

I'm sure that this is covered in some - or one - of the 2nd edition books but for the life of me I cannot quite remember. (Perhaps it was even the main rulebook?) Apologies... I'm miles away from my RPG material and, as mentioned in another thread, it's been a while... ;)

Kage
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Abstruse
post Aug 31 2003, 12:08 PM
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I love the older books personally. Then again, the older books are what got me into Shadowrun in the first place.

Shadowbeat is pretty cool for media/music type rules (though if you ever play a PC that also happens to be a rock musician in my game, expect to get killed. A lot.)

Shadowtech, SSC, Fields of Fire, and all the old equipment books are great for both the pictures and the shadowtalk sections -- something sorely missing from Man and Machine and the Canon Companion.

Tir Tairngire and Aztlan are both great location books if you don't mind the IE/dragon/Horrors stuff. The Denver boxed set is also cool for the maps as well as the interesting GM's book that had several options for each NPC/location/etc. presented so that even if your players got hold of a copy of the book, they wouldn't automatically know all the dirty little secrets their characters shouldn't.

Harlequin is probably the best adventure "track" Shadowrun has had in IMHO. And that's saying a lot with Brainscan, Survival of the Fittest, Harlequin's Back, etc. out there. I personally love anything with the bugs, esp. Universal Brotherhood and the adventure included with it.

The best thing about Shadowrun is that even though it's gone through three editions, most of the books from the older editions are still useful. Dig out an old AD&D 1st Ed sourcebook and see how relevent any of the info is to D20 D&D. Not very much I'm willing to bet.

My advice is get a second job for a couple of weeks and start scouring eBay for the old OOP books. I'm personally only 10 books away from having every single Shadowrun book (except the novels...I'm going to start on them after I finish the game books :P ) I rarely even get to play Shadowrun because of the small town I live in, but the books are seriously some of the best written in the entire gaming industry. You can read the "How it came to pass" section of the sourcebooks and then from there read probably 75% of the sourcebooks without even knowing the rules to the game yet STILL enjoy reading them.

Kudos to both FASA and FanPro for their great work.

The Abstruse One
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Kage2020
post Aug 31 2003, 12:38 PM
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Is the Corporate Sourcebook still hanging around? The descriptions of the corprorations and how runs could effect their ratings was something that I always found interesting as well...

Kage
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Abstruse
post Aug 31 2003, 01:11 PM
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Corporate Shadowfiles is the book you're thinking of. And no, it's currently OOP. I believe the newer books, Corporate Download, is also out of print. If you want a lot of info about the specific corps, get Corporate Download. If you want a LOT of background info on corporations in general (and a good primer for an Economics 1301 class), then get Corporate Shadowfiles. I like the latter personally just because it has a vertiable shitload of info about how corporations work, how stocks work, and the various tricks corporations use against one another.

The Abstruse One
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Ancient History
post Aug 31 2003, 02:10 PM
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An interesting note: after all this time, Transys Nueronet in the DotSW sourcebook was given a Corporate Shadowfiles-type set of ratings!

Personally, I have always held that the Chris Kubasik story in Virtual Realities 1.0 is the best primer for decking-ever. Even two editions later. Plus, it introduces Halberstam.
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Turtle
post Aug 31 2003, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Personally, I have always held that the Chris Kubasik story in Virtual Realities 1.0 is the best primer for decking-ever. Even two editions later. Plus, it introduces Halberstam.

I SO have to agree...when I read it the first time in '92, I loved it. Still do, by the way. :love:
Is there a connection to the novel "Lucifer's Deck", by the way? I stopped reading the novels after "Who hunts the Hunter" :)
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Ancient History
post Aug 31 2003, 03:54 PM
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No, no connection whatsoever. Both Renny and Lucifer pretty much drop through a hole in the bottom of the metaplot. Halberstam goes on though.

I'm sad to say I dinnae recall a good SR bit to cover magic...even in the novels, magic tends to get the shaft.
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Peter Pan
post Aug 31 2003, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (Darth Phylos)
Also - if you are looking for *flavour*, then the earlier editions are more fun. SR3 is as dry as a dog's biscuit...


yes, yes, to darth phylos you listen...

why would you ever want to go to 3rd ed?

(ok, granted I'm firmly wedded to 2nd ed, my pile of 2nd ed sourcebooks is what economists would call a "sunk cost", but my response to more than 50% of the timeline between 2nd and 3rd ed is " WTF ? " )
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Sepherim
post Aug 31 2003, 10:52 PM
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As for 2nd ed adventures, I'd go for Blood in the Boardroom, probably my favourite story in all Shadowrun. If Renraku Arcology: Shutdown can be called an "adventure" it's a damn great one. ;)
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sapphire_wyvern
post Aug 31 2003, 11:30 PM
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@ Sepherim:
According to the book's spine it's an adventure. I love it, so eeeviiil... :)

@ Ancient History:
Those Transys Neuronet corporate ratings use the system published in Corporate Download don't they?
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Ancient History
post Sep 1 2003, 12:17 AM
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I'm showing my age...yes, they do. It just surprised me because of how rarely such ratings are used.
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KosherPickle
post Sep 1 2003, 02:44 AM
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QUOTE (Abstruse)
I believe the newer books, Corporate Download, is also out of print. If you want a lot of info about the specific corps, get Corporate Download.

It is out of print, but it isn't difficult to find. (Stiggybaby, our Lord and Savior.)

In regards to other OOP stuff to look for, I'm always interested in location data. My two recent pickups, Target: Smuggler Havens and Cyberpirates are very good about it (and Target: Matrix, but it's a little different).
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HMHVV Hunter
post Sep 1 2003, 02:44 AM
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How can Corporate Download be out of print? How old is that book?
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Adam
post Sep 1 2003, 03:14 AM
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I believe that Corporate Download was mistakenly thought to be sold out at one time; Fast Forward has copies in stock now though, so it's obviously in print and available.
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SubRosa
post Sep 1 2003, 03:14 AM
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned the original Seattle Sourcebook. If you run a Seattle-based game, this is just a must have. Add New Seattle and you are in GM heaven. :)

Target:UCAS is a good book if you want to run in Detroit, Boston, or Chicago post Bug City.

Harlequin and Universal Brotherhood were simply awesome adventures. I also liked Maria Mercurial (the first SR adventure I ever played it), and Queen Euphoria. Dark Angel was good, although I had to do some reworking of it to make it fit my game.

Corporate Shadowfiles is an excellent book if you do a lot of corp-based runs. It primarily deals with how corps work, explaining things like insider trading, white knights, management buyouts, Selling Short, etc... No stats for things, except for the megas at that time.

Underworld Sourcebook is likewise the same for the major underworld players. So if you want to run a Yak, Mob, Seoulpa Ring, Triad game, you will want this. Really good stuff on all things criminal.

2nd Edition Awakenings has some neat info on magical traditions, tactics used by and against people like magic cops, etc... I like it for the flavor, as it can add some depth to your characters, and give you some ideas as a player or GM that you would probably otherwise never consider.
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Ancient History
post Sep 1 2003, 03:40 AM
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Cybertechnology, for the Hatchetman/Street Samurai story and the Transcript.

Aztlan is a must for all the old conspiracy theorists, and Cyberpirates! must be included for the price comparisons on sex slaves if not any of the wonderful material contained within.
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KosherPickle
post Sep 1 2003, 06:43 AM
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QUOTE (Adam)
I believe that Corporate Download was mistakenly thought to be sold out at one time; Fast Forward has copies in stock now though, so it's obviously in print and available.

Yes, it was "Temporarily out of stock" and is now "Back in stock".

I'd be amazed to learn that FASA is still printing copies, however.
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Adam
post Sep 1 2003, 07:22 AM
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FASA is most certainly not printing copies. I can think of three simple reasons why FFE may have thought it was out of stock and then brought it back without it being reprinted:

1. They simply lost track of the books in the warehouse and assumed it was out of stock. A simple spreadsheet error could accomplish this.

2. They were out of stock of it at the warehouse, but another distributor had an excess stock, so they bought it back.
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kevyn668
post Sep 1 2003, 04:57 PM
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I always liked Ivy & Chrome. Love, revenge, mad Azzie mages and vague references to "Old Gods"...doesn't get much better. :)
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SCLariat
post Sep 1 2003, 04:58 PM
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IMHO, I can run a kick-rear SR game by using just the main book, Sprawl Sites and the original Seattle Sourcebook. While I like most of the 3rd edition stuff, the older books were much more in depth about the how's and why's. The depth of the older books, especially when compared to the newer sourcebooks is readily apparent. I used Corporate Shadowfiles as an outline for my Corporations class in law school (and made a B+ I might add) because it was so thorough. The original Seattle Sourcebook is still the definitive guide to Seattle...New Seattle pales in comparison.

A lot of it is not FASA or FanPro's fault...after all, Nigel Fidley passed away right after the completion of the Aztlan sourcebook. Nigel Fidley had a rare gift of making the complex understandable. I think most of the new writers either lack that ability or don't feel the necessity to do so. Some of the new rule books are so complex they're almost useless. It think that's a shame.
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