NSRCG - PC Windows Character Generation Program, Bug reports, hints and tips for NSRCG Options

[Fortune]

That doesn't solve the problem of the gun only being able to fire caseless ammo though, although it would be a good addition as well.

The choice has to be made about whether a weapon fires cased or caseless ammo when the weapon is purchased. A single button/toggle switch that pops up whenever a new firearm is purchased shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

[HMHVV Hunter]

When I put Muscle toner/augmentation on a character with a cyberlimb, the program doesn't adjust for the percentage reduction that's supposed to occur with cyberlimbed characters.

Muscle toner/augmentation, dermal sheathing, and some other cyber/bioware have their nuyen costs and Essence costs reduced by 10% per full limb (and 5% per partial limb).

Also, something weird happens when those two are mixed. For example, my street sam has a cyberarm with a STR of 8. I also have muscle augmentation 4 (added to my unaugmented STR of 4). Instead of my average strength being 8, it lists the strength as 12 (4 natural + 4 for augment. + 4 for cyberlimb).

[Tanka]

I think this has been noticed a few times... And I think he just said that the GM should always look over things before OKing, and do any needed changes as he sees fit.

I know where's he's coming from in this. It would be really hard to fix that in VB. It'd be really hard to fix that in any language, really.

[mcmackie]

[Tanka]

I think the rules are in CC in the "creating your own gun" section.

I could be wrong, though.

[Ol' Scratch]

In 3rd Edition, all weapons are assumed to be caseless unless specified otherwise. Cannon Companion gives additional rules as pointed out by Tanka.

[mcmackie]

[mcmackie]

Another question: How do you put Muscle Toner in a cyberleg? Muscle Toner is a quickness mod that enhances your natural leg muscles, not a cyber leg... Hence no reduction. :( BIOWARE is not reduced. Only cyberware costs are reduced when placed in cyberware.... If someone would point me at the rules that state otherwise, I'd be happy to look it over.

[TinkerGnome]

I'd just like to point out that cased ammo has the exact same cost and availability as regular ammo (the same for guns which fire each type). The differences are only as they relate to the creation of the ammunition and have nothing to do with the actual cost (It's more expensive to make the caseless, yes, but when you're buying it, you save on the shipping, as it were).

[Tiralee]

Cannon Companion? Fields of Fire here.

(Digs through "the pile of evil" TM)

Page 77, lower left-hand panel:

"For the sake of simplicity, assume that any post 2050 weapon can be obtained in caseless...yada...ok"

Basically - To "buy" a caseless weapon (ie, Predator 3 (cs) ) the cost is +50% and the Availability is +1.

Caseless Ammo = +1 availability and +150% more expensive.

BUT: Caseless ammo takes up less space (saving on weight too) so you can cram in 20% more ammo...

Making my caseless HVAR 60 rounds rather than 50, my Predators 18 © And the Ares Alpha 50 ©.

You can houserule the possibility of shotguns having caseless ammo... ("But it said.." "Shut up, can you imagine a back-country hick with his caseless ammo? He'd probabily think they were crayons. Or Candy." "Hmmmm, candy." "That's a 4+ karma hole you're digging..." "I'll stop now." "Good.")

And to be honest, I'd thinka a few weapons wouldn't have the "option" available to them, the Ares Slivergun springs to mind?

But if you use the "Fields of Fire", chances are you'd enjoy the reduction in possible forensic evidence left at various scenes. Not to mention a greater chance of actually using supressive fire and/or cutting that car in half without reloading.

Going back to my original post, so, the "caseless" button isn't an option? (Begging noises.... Hey, I can't program, I'm a Food Technologist - I'm better making crystal meth...)


L.

[TinkerGnome]

SR3 rules give even availabiltiy and cost to caseless weapons. SR3, p276.

[Tiralee]

You know, since I GM, I rarely read the damn core rules :).

Ok, so I can buy my whiz-bang weapons EASIER than the chunky brass-using ones?

Damn. 1998 3rd edition, 1994, fields of fire.
Sheesh. You know how long it took for me to find my APDS supplier? :twirl:

Okay, so I, the typical street punk (Ok, Gunbunny) can go into, say, "Big Al's CRaZy GuN MArT" and say, uh, no, I want the one with more bullets! And get it at no extra cost? Oh, glorious day!

So...how many of you actually USE caseless?
Because I think they might have stuck it in the back of the book with good reason - it's begging to be bent out of shape by people like me.

I think I'll stick with the +1 availability and 150% cost with my little group - I know (NOW) it's not strictly canon, but 20% extra rounds in a clip does unbalance things a little oddly.

Still, The button would be nice. Sigh.

L>

Pay no attention to by whine. It's a good program that I'm happy to reccomend to all 'runners, not to mention it's easier figuring out starting rules that way.

[mcmackie]

Fields of Fire? Hmm. Never looked at it.... I think I bought it... dig dig.. yep. here it is BUT this leaves the question:
Didn't the Cannon Companion superceed FF and as such, CC rules? Remember I'm strictly SR3 canon. :)
As far as that goes, there are rules for Cyberware (replaced by M&M), magical focuii (MIS), etc... Heck, they replicated the Ares Laser III in both books...Look at the booklist for SR3 (SR3, SRC, MM, MIS,CC, MAT, R3, New Seattle) Nope, no FF . I'm sure you get my point...
:) Thanks for the SR3 reference. I'm willing to accept that caseless ammo costs the same (canon) but don't see anything about caseless gun cost. Perhaps this would be a proper question for the developers. I'm willing to consider the 150% of cost +1 avail. mod but it would be a bit of work. I really would like a proper ruling.
There is no cite (other than FF) that says you can get more ammo in a clip if using caseless. "Less filling and it tastes great!"
Remember people: There is nothing preventing you from adding your own entries to the GEAR.DAT file OR using the custom gear option. This is not a show stopper. It just means I won't endorse it as then it might be considered "more official" :)

[Tiralee]

Yep, you're right, Cannon Companion is published later than Fields of Fire and the SR core book.

...Well, fair enough regarding the lack of defined rules for you to follow, the thought of having to write a possible 3 "endings" for what I thought would be a simple task is rather daunting.

Well, this is a question I think should go to one of the nice fellows at Fanpro, or whatever it is now. What has precedence? Is there a defined rule regarding it?

I've noticed, re-reading through Cannon Companion (Never liked it much) that a few weapons, (Like the Areas Protector) come only in caseless versions... Hmm, I'd like to have a ruling on this now, it seems a little weird.

Anyhow, thanks for looking into a rather trivial wish.

L.

[Ol' Scratch]

As Tinker Gnome said, caseless ammo is "far more common in the 2060s" than standard loads as stated on SR3 p. 276. Practically by definition, that makes it the default load.

In no way does Cannon Companion supercede this simple fact; it just states that caseless ammunition is slightly more difficult to manufacture. That doesn't make it less common or more expensive; supply and demand are the determining factors there. Caseless ammo is and should be the default ammo type in 3rd Edition canon.

Weapons that state that they can only fire caseless ammunition means exactly that. If for some reason you have chosen to buy cased ammunition in a similar weapon or you have picked up an enemy's weapon that's using that archaic style of ammo but want to use that clip in your caseless-only one, you simply can't. That's all it means.

Also as Tinker Gnome pointed out, the +2 to Availability is solely for the purpose of crafting caseless ammuntion on its own; it doesn't actually increase the Availability of the ammuntion.

[TinkerGnome]

For what it's worth, the costs are probably the same (but with identical stats). Owing to the reference in SR3:

[mcmackie]

Look... If I implement one way, say guns are the same cost case or caseless, I'm going to get somebody who says it should cost more or vice a versa.... I'm looking for a definitive answer BEFORE I hardcode it in. "Then make it an option" somebody says. The answer is NO. It's a major pain the a** to be incorporating everybody's favorite houserule by making it an option...
Would somebody who knows the developers contact them? :D

NOTE IF:
The costs / avail / SI of the guns and ammo is the same then all of these changes become the simple addition of an abbreviation to the gun and ammo description. Would somebody like to make a suggestion? XC, CX, CL for caseless..... This would be very easy to do and I wouldn't mind do it BUT.... Only once. see the question above. :S

[Grey]

Damn! One of the things that I had added to the GEAR.DAT I forgot to tell you about and it didn't make it into the new version. I had added a bunch of enteries for full clips of AV Ammo. I'll redo them sometime next week and send them over to you.

[Dashifen]

Hey McMackie:

Does the latest version follow the new rules for Bioware and the awakened as per the M&M Errata?

Thanks,
-- Dash --

[Tanka]

Scroll up, I already asked and he answered. :D

Edit: That reminds me... I should download the new version now. *runs off to do so*

[moosegod]

mc- case/caseless is a free choice according to SR3.

[mcmackie]

[Dashifen]

[Ol' Scratch]

Where's the problem? It doesn't matter what previous sourcebooks from older editions state. The core book for SR3 states that caseless is by far the most common ammo type, complete with the context that by default it's what most weapons use, and no mention is made of a price difference between the two. Basically, you just choose to label it as used cased ammo if you want to for whatever reason and otherwise assume its caseless -- it's a non-issue fluff description. No rules required for non-issues fluff descriptions.

It's like complaining that SR3 doesn't include rules stating how high a Prioritity or how many Build Points it takes to be a Blonde instead of a Brunette.

[mcmackie]