Powerbolt, what is a valid target. Options

[Brazila]

I know that with a manabolt/powerbolt you generally can't do called shot type effects against people. What I am wondering is if that applies to vehicles. One of the normal options for a called shot, is to hit a smaller part of a bigger target (the example of a tire on a car is given). So can you target the tire with a powerbolt, or is the whole vehicle considered one target? With the errata for object resistance it is practically impossible to damage a vehicle with a combat spell, but how about a tire? Just wondering what everyone thinks on this?

[Kagetenshi]

I'd allow it.

~J

[Cain]

By canon, no. The tire is considered to be part of the vehicle. If you want to houserule it, that's fine; but the canon answer is no.

[Kagetenshi]

Edit: reread thread. Never mind, I wouldn't allow it; for some reason I thought it was being said that called shots were allowable anyway.

~J

[Eyeless Blond]

If you're going to try this, use an elemental manip. They're ranged combat tests already, so adding in a called shot modifier would be much more palatable.

[BitBasher]

By canon explicitly you cannot subtarget a part of a car (or person or ...) with a combat spell.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[TheScamp]

SR3, p.150, bottom of 1st column, continuing on the second:

[Brazila]

With that in mind, doesn't it seem a little to hard to damage a vehicle with a spell. Both Elemental Manips. and combat spells are pretty much no good. Take a doberman drone for instance....

[Kanada Ten]

Alternatives to Powerbolt for vehicle annihilation? This took me over a half an hour to find on page 97 of the old forums. Please, please read it.

[edit] Though, on second thought, the basic answer is don't attack it directly.

[corvusnex]

Don't use spells against vehicles directly.

Try:

1. Ice Sheet
2. Lightning EM (ASIST Backlash)
3. Sand EM (Foul sensors)
4. Acid EM (Fumes will affect vehicles without Gas Enviroseal)

...and most importantly;

5. NATURE SPIRITS (Confusion + Accident = messed-up Rigger)

corvusnex

[BitBasher]

Except that even EM spells do absolutely nothing to vehicles unless they can get past the armor. Thich is, not often when it matters.

[Kagetenshi]

[TheScamp]

Note that the use of Confusion and Accident together would impose a +12 modifier from a Force 6 spirit. On city streets, only exceptional riggers are going to be all right.

[Zenmaxer]

Also, a spirit could prolly use accident on both the pilot and the vehicle... couldn't it?

[Moon-Hawk]

Two uses of the power, so that the driver spills coffee in his lap at the same time a tire blows? Clever.

[blakkie]

[Moon-Hawk]

Well, technically, since it's a combat spell, it shouldn't be able to affect a door that is part of a car, building, or larger band of musicians. :-) It should really only affect a freestanding doorway that is not part of some larger structure. You should have to take wreck/ram car, or building, or something like that; something that is a complete entity.
Of course, the game designers might've intended wreck/ram door to work like that, but it would be a bit of an internal inconsistency. :eek: Perish the thought!

[Kagetenshi]

But then you have to take Wreck City, as the building is clearly a part of a larger entity. Wreck Country becomes the next logical step, right up until Wreck Universe, which solves all our problems.

Until Harlequin drops by to remind us that we’re not alone, resulting in a Wreck Metaverse spell…

~J

[Moon-Hawk]

Exactly! So how do you tell where one entity is considered complete, and when it is part of a larger whole?
You ask your GM!

[corvusnex]

[BitBasher]

I completely agree about the environmental effects of these spells, I was more referring to the direct secondary effects of spells like Lightning Bolt which the vehicles are immune to if the spell cannot damage the vehicle. The incidental effects like road condition and visibility work just fine.

[corvusnex]