I know that with a manabolt/powerbolt you generally can't do called shot type effects against people. What I am wondering is if that applies to vehicles. One of the normal options for a called shot, is to hit a smaller part of a bigger target (the example of a tire on a car is given). So can you target the tire with a powerbolt, or is the whole vehicle considered one target? With the errata for object resistance it is practically impossible to damage a vehicle with a combat spell, but how about a tire? Just wondering what everyone thinks on this?
Full Version: Powerbolt
I'd allow it.
~J
~J
By canon, no. The tire is considered to be part of the vehicle. If you want to houserule it, that's fine; but the canon answer is no.
Edit: reread thread. Never mind, I wouldn't allow it; for some reason I thought it was being said that called shots were allowable anyway.
~J
~J
If you're going to try this, use an elemental manip. They're ranged combat tests already, so adding in a called shot modifier would be much more palatable.
By canon explicitly you cannot subtarget a part of a car (or person or ...) with a combat spell.
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| By canon explicitly you cannot subtarget a part of a car (or person or ...) with a combat spell. |
Yeah, IIRC combat spells are basically energy that more or less "grounds to the target" they don't "Target" anything as far as aiming goes, unlike Elemental spells.
SR3, p.150, bottom of 1st column, continuing on the second:
| QUOTE |
| Vehicles are single entities. A vehicle's wheels, windshield, antenna and other accessories are interrelated components. Therefore, magicians cannot use magic to target individual portions of a vehicle. |
With that in mind, doesn't it seem a little to hard to damage a vehicle with a spell. Both Elemental Manips. and combat spells are pretty much no good. Take a doberman drone for instance....
Alternatives to Powerbolt for vehicle annihilation? This took me over a half an hour to find on page 97 of the old forums. Please, please read it.
[edit] Though, on second thought, the basic answer is don't attack it directly.
[edit] Though, on second thought, the basic answer is don't attack it directly.
Don't use spells against vehicles directly.
Try:
1. Ice Sheet
2. Lightning EM (ASIST Backlash)
3. Sand EM (Foul sensors)
4. Acid EM (Fumes will affect vehicles without Gas Enviroseal)
...and most importantly;
5. NATURE SPIRITS (Confusion + Accident = messed-up Rigger)
corvusnex
Try:
1. Ice Sheet
2. Lightning EM (ASIST Backlash)
3. Sand EM (Foul sensors)
4. Acid EM (Fumes will affect vehicles without Gas Enviroseal)
...and most importantly;
5. NATURE SPIRITS (Confusion + Accident = messed-up Rigger)
corvusnex
Except that even EM spells do absolutely nothing to vehicles unless they can get past the armor. Thich is, not often when it matters.
| QUOTE (corvusnex) |
| 5. NATURE SPIRITS (Confusion + Accident = messed-up Rigger) |
Depends. If you've got a basic Rigger (VCR 1, vehicle with Handling 4) and a Force 6 spirit, they're looking at a crash test TN of 8, which is respectably difficult. Now take that same spirit against a Rigger with a VCR-3 in the same vehicle. TN=4+6-6, or 4. Not difficult at all to avoid crashing. Now take an überrigger with Vehicle Empathy and a base Handling of 1: TN=0+6-6, or 0, raised to 2 because of minimum TN rules.
~J
Note that the use of Confusion and Accident together would impose a +12 modifier from a Force 6 spirit. On city streets, only exceptional riggers are going to be all right.
Also, a spirit could prolly use accident on both the pilot and the vehicle... couldn't it?
Two uses of the power, so that the driver spills coffee in his lap at the same time a tire blows? Clever.
| QUOTE (TheScamp) | ||
SR3, p.150, bottom of 1st column, continuing on the second:
|
With Wreck/Ram would Wreck/Ram Door work on all sorts of doors and portals including a vehicle door, trap door, the spirit of Jim Morrison, etc.?
Well, technically, since it's a combat spell, it shouldn't be able to affect a door that is part of a car, building, or larger band of musicians. 
It should really only affect a freestanding doorway that is not part of some larger structure. You should have to take wreck/ram car, or building, or something like that; something that is a complete entity.
Of course, the game designers might've intended wreck/ram door to work like that, but it would be a bit of an internal inconsistency.
Perish the thought!
It should really only affect a freestanding doorway that is not part of some larger structure. You should have to take wreck/ram car, or building, or something like that; something that is a complete entity.Of course, the game designers might've intended wreck/ram door to work like that, but it would be a bit of an internal inconsistency.
Perish the thought!
But then you have to take Wreck City, as the building is clearly a part of a larger entity. Wreck Country becomes the next logical step, right up until Wreck Universe, which solves all our problems.
Until Harlequin drops by to remind us that we’re not alone, resulting in a Wreck Metaverse spell…
~J
Until Harlequin drops by to remind us that we’re not alone, resulting in a Wreck Metaverse spell…
~J
Exactly! So how do you tell where one entity is considered complete, and when it is part of a larger whole?
You ask your GM!
You ask your GM!
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| Except that even EM spells do absolutely nothing to vehicles unless they can get past the armor. Thich is, not often when it matters. |
That's not the point. The spells are not trying to directly affect the vehicle, which only the most powerful EM spells have a chance of doing. EM spells are great for altering the enivronment in which vehicles have to operate in.
"Ice Sheet" forces a Crash Test. It affects the road directly, not the car.
"Acid" EM spells leave toxic fumes, which is an alteration of the air the vehicle is passing through. Unless the occupants are inside a vehicle with Gas EnviroSeal, they still have to breathe that air.
"Sand" EM spells make it more difficult to use sensors. How many times have you heard of military helicopters tracking targets through a sandstorm? Probably not very often. Even ignoring the direct vehicle effects of grit (sand) infiltration, the scanning ability of sensors is not an integrated component of the vehicle and therefore ripe for magical disruption.
"Lightning" EM: this is debatable as to how effective it is against nice metallic vehicles and their rigger drivers.
Nature Spirits: As I said before, Confusion PLUS Accident. Have a Force 6 spirit use them together on one driver and even a Rigger with VCR-3 in a custom Ferrari Open-Wheel Racer is probably going to crash, especially in a city or winding country roads.
I completely agree about the environmental effects of these spells, I was more referring to the direct secondary effects of spells like Lightning Bolt which the vehicles are immune to if the spell cannot damage the vehicle. The incidental effects like road condition and visibility work just fine.
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| I completely agree about the environmental effects of these spells, I was more referring to the direct secondary effects of spells like Lightning Bolt which the vehicles are immune to if the spell cannot damage the vehicle. The incidental effects like road condition and visibility work just fine. |
OK. I agree that direct secondary EM effects still face the same near-insurmountable challenge of directly affecting a vehicle.
corvusnex
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