Seeking info on White Wolf games, share your thoughts on White Wolf! Options

[Backgammon]

I've been looking at White Wolf games recently, and I'd like to know your thoughts on them, especially if you've played some. How do they compare to Shadowrun? It seems like there is less to "do" in these games, being limited by the fact that you are a vampire or whatever. Shadowrun has this liberty of goal and actions that I don't think these games have.

Also, I took a quick look at Mage traditions, and man, there are some good ideas for Shadowrun initiatory groups and threats in there. I especially liked the idea of mages who are fervent ecstasy seekers. Seems so obvious to me know that such groups would exist in Shadowrun.

Anyway, please post your miscellaneous thoughts on all of this.

[HMHVV Hunter]

I think the focuses of the games are very different. Shadowrun works more like an action movie, while most of the White Wolf games work more like an action/drama/horror depending on what kind of game you're running. I don't think there's anything fundamentally worse about WW games compared to Shadowrun or vice versa, they're just different styles. And I like both of them.

My 2 :nuyen:

[Ancient History]

I tend to try and follow the metaplot, which culminates in everything being responsible by a guy named Dave living in Illinois.

[Ronin Soul]

The feeling of the games is as said very different to Shadowrun. I'll talk about both the World of Darkness games and Exalted.

The World of Darkness games can best be summed up in one word; desperation. You play as a being of great power who is in a losing fight against whatever it is. In Mage you are fighting against the restricting grasp of "reality". In Demon you are fighting for Redemption in a world without faith. In Vampire you fight against destiny (the imminent end of the world). In Werwolf (the most combat heavy) you fight a losing battle against the Wyrm, against pollution and corruption.
Those are very broad, but my experience with those games isn't large. My WOD game of choice is Hunter, and that's the most desperate. You've been chosen to fight in a war no-one has any real idea how to fight against monsters that are ancient and very powerful, armed only with a few supernatural abilities that seem squat in comparison to what the creatures of the night have.
All WOD games are in short bleak, dark and desperate in atmosphere.

Exalted is also different to Shadowrun but for different reasons. Basically you play a demi god in it. This means you have enormous potential to change the world. Unlike in Shadowrun where the players can't really change the status quo, in Exalted you can (from taking over cities, to overthrowing empires to dealing with a major "bad" guy in the setting). In Exalted you have the strength to change the world, and as players you are encouraged to use it. Exalted is a game of epic deeds, epic struggles and total coolness. It is based on anime and Hong Kong action movies, as well as old epics like the Illiad and the Romance of Three Kingdoms.
Exalted is my favourite game of all time and it shows.

Check out White Wolf's website if you're really interested. All the games have good coverage (as well as Orpheus - a game I know little about).

Hope that helped

[Pistons]

Well, Orpheus just barely came out, so there hasn't been much time for folks to formulate on an opinion yet. :) My copy came in the mail today. Mmm.

[Phylos Fett]

[HMHVV Hunter]

For that matter, what is Orpheus? I've never heard of it until now.

[Finbar]

Well, I ran a Changeling The Shadowrun game at Dragoncon, aside from the silliness involved in having a bunch of comedians as players, it works rather well.

[BookWyrm]

Orpheus (a VERY limited RPG) is about the player becoming employed by The Orpheus Group, a collection of Meduims-for-hire who regularly send their spirits over to the Deadlands (see also Wraith) to invesigate. Of course, problems ensue....

Shadowrun stands on it's own, both as a Cyberpunk-theme and with it's unique Magic system.

[HMHVV Hunter]

The Orphic Circle?!

I remember hearing about those guys from other WW RPGs!

Cool :)

[Ancient History]

Yeeaah...they do that alot.

[Adam]

The Orpheus page is at http://www.white-wolf.com/orpheus/ - it looks pretty interesting. I hope my copy arrives soon. :)

[HMHVV Hunter]

Hmmm...apparently I was mistaken. This doesn't look like the Orphic Circle.

So these guys are basically World of Darkness Ghostbusters?

[Enkeli]

And if you are looking some recent world changing canon information, check out the Time Of Judgement. It basicly says that the current World Of Darkness, discluding Exalted and the Dark Ages line, will come to an end at 14. of january 2004. But they will release a new World Of Darkness line at the end of that year.

[Pistons]

[HMHVV Hunter]

[Adam]

It's in the following press release: http://www.timeofjudgement.com/press.html

"An all-new World of Darkness launches in August of 2004."

[HMHVV Hunter]

Sweeeeeeeeet.

[kevyn668]

The thing I like best about the World of Darkness is the desperation factor. Its almost like EVERYONE stats out w/ the Dark Fate flaw, 'cause yer all gonna die when the world ends...

But by that same hand it gives rise to a lot more martyrs (I like Werewolf the best, could ya tell?). I tend towards a "your ends justify your means" in RL and RP so when the fate of the world is on the line, pretty much anything goes. I also like the anti-hero concept. Its even more prevelant than SR. In SR you could be thought of a "street moster" or "criminal" by the general populace. In WOW, for the most part, you ARE a monster. :ork :grr:

[The_Sarge]

Apart from all that, it seems that the WOD has most comedian-players on its side. :D I don't know why, but personal experience and surfing the web showed me, that NO rpg can stand up against the dark and gritty worlds from White Wolf, when it comes to make the table lough out reaaaaaaly loud.

It's like a small paradox...

[Snow_Fox]

You mean they came out with a new system, jusdt a few months before they scrap all their systems?

We've played a little with them , Hot wheels is going to GM a short campaign of VtM after we finish the current story line we're on. The games seem to be very character driven with basic tmeplates that you build on. Lots and lots of supplimetns but little in the way of pre-written adventures so GM's really have to feel out their way.

[Adam]

[Backgammon]

Hmm, pretty interesting stuff, especially Ronin Soul. But what do players do in an average session? I mean, in Shadowrun, there's gonna be a "mission" somewhere, where you are going to do something ranging from infiltrating a facility to killing a fixer in the slums. And in between this action, your players will relate with the shadowy people of their world, while at the same time fighting to keep their sane humanity, be it simply by making a small gesture like stopping a pimp from beating your favorite whore.

So what do you *do* in mage, vampire or werewolf? The metaplot seems to be extremely prelevent (compared to shadowrun, where canon evets don't really influence my games much), which is something I think I like. So do you go around gathering info on the coming apocalyspe exclusively? I just don't see what a game would be about, what it's stucture is, and what the long term fun is. Acting like a dramatic brooding vampire is fun for like a game or two, but I don't see myself truly developing a character like that.

And yeah, I visited White Wolf's page. That's what prompted my post.

[The_Sarge]

What do you do?

That's up to the Storyteller and your players to decide.
It's good to actually talk about what characters they want to play and if they have some set goals.

Vampire: One character could try to become the justacar or even prince of a city, while the other might try to help him to further their anarch goals.

Mage: The old masters are gone. New paradigms arise. New opportunities. The players perhaps want to form a _real_ multi-tradition cabal and show a way for the others to follow. So, where do they set up their chantrie? How do they secure their node from Werebeasts and the Technocrats? How to consolidate power?

Werewolf: Never played... Sorry. No hints that I could give you, without talking out of my ass.

Wraith: Struggle with your shadow. Try to correct old wrongs. And don't slide too far away...

Changeling: Again... Sorry.

. . .

It's much mory 'story' driven than 'mission oriented'. (Meant in a neutral way!)

[Atrox]

Werewolf can be mission-oriented, of sorts. Obviously, when you go against an all-pervasive evil like the Wyrm, you have to pick a battle . . . then another . . . and another.

Say you take out a few Vamps just for warm-up, then discover they're in league with this corp, Pentex. So you go there, smash their local HQ (not as easy as it sounds), and see where that leads you.

Usually, the "missions" are ones the characters choose, rather than ones given to them by an employer, though. The chars might just as easily fight against snuff kiddie porn producers with supernatural connections . . .

In Vampire, it often makes sense to create a group with some reason to belong to/trust in each other. Unlike the Garou, who at least share a common goal, Vamps usually don't have common goals, at least not across Clan lines. These slags invented the concept of paranoia and don't consider it a sickness; it's a survival trait. In VtM, they are out to get you. All of them. Including your Sire, your siblings in darkness, your Clan brothers and sisters, literally everyone.
At least canon makes it sound like that.