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 Stun Baton and Shock Gloves |
 Oct 28 2004, 04:08 PM
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#26
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Manus Celer Dei  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802  |
Called shots for special effect are not broken.
~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:16 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
glitter.
The idea of having Aimed Shot and Called Shot in the same game is odd to me |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:21 PM
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#28
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I have no problem with the standard Called Shots rules for the most part; they serve their purpose as written. It's all the other ones, or house rules relying entirely on them in order to have any amount of staging, that I object to.
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Oct 28 2004, 04:22 PM
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#29
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Why? Just because you’re going for the tires or the spotlight on a security van doesn’t mean you have any more time to devote to it.
Edit: that was to Stumps. ~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:23 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
calling shots is mostly dumb to me.
why? um...it's a general point area aim. Meaning, you aren't directly aiming, but you are calling your shot at a general location on their body... When aren't you doing that? As for the the vehicle...that's why there's an Aim rule |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:25 PM
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#31
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
In my opinion it represents a wild shot to a small and highly vulnerable area rather than sitting there for a few turns aiming. I know the rules for it include requiring an Aimed Shot, but the +4 target modifier represents the wild shot to a small area bit.
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Oct 28 2004, 04:27 PM
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#32
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
If you say “I shoot the van” it’s generally a given that you’re trying to damage the van. Calling a shot to the spotlight or tires results in a negligible chance of actually damaging the van, but accomplishes something that just firing to disable the van does not.
When aren’t you doing that? Quite a lot of the time, actually. And the Aim rule is irrelevant, as the Doc points out. ~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:28 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
hence why it's not needed to me. "I'm shooting at the CENTER of Johns TORSO aiming for his HEART" sounds too much. "I'm shooting at the CENTER of Johns TORSO" sounds rediculous "I'm shooting at Johns TORSO" is an AIM and before anyone starts getting into things about whether that is an Aim or the Heart is an Aim, remember that SR dictates how GOOD your Aim was by how much Damage you deal, so it's an Aim. |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:30 PM
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#34
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That’s all well and good, but firing at John’s pistol (for the sake of example. Canon states that you can’t do this on smaller than vehicle-sized targets) in an attempt to knock it from his hand is quite dissociated from the normal act of firing at his center of mass.
~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:31 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Shooting at a tire is an Aim. I'm sorry. It will always be so.
Do it sometime. Tell me if you are Aiming or just generally shooting. |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:31 PM
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#36
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Standard Called Shots do not allow aiming for a specific portion of a metahuman-sized target, only vehicle-sized targets. When making a Called Shot against a metahuman, you're aiming at a *very* vulnerable spot, like the eye or neck. Whatever you percieve as being their most vulnerable spot the moment you pull the trigger... which you do as soon as you can rather than sitting there for a few phases, aiming, and waiting for the right moment.
A normal shot is aiming for a generally vulnerable area (the entire head, an unprotected part of his torso, whatever). |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:31 PM
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#37
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
If the vehicle in question is speeding away and I have under a second? It’s most definitely not going to be a Take Aim action, I can tell you that now.
~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:32 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
um...isn't that why they say you can't do that...as you just pointed out?? And I do need to redefine something...Called Shots makes sense in melee actions for reasons like hitting their punch. (which would be dumb to try) |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:38 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
I don't think I'll ever like called shots....
perhaps it's the open-ended raping of it that has ruined it for me, but it's just so damn abused so easily when it comes to ranged weapons ESPECIALLY after the weapons are all decked out. |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:43 PM
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#40
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Smartlink-2's are broken as far as Called Shots go. No argument from me there.
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Oct 28 2004, 04:44 PM
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#41
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Then replace with the van-and-spotlight example. My point is unaffected. ~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:49 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Kagetenshi: points up to post above yours where Doc says it all.
And I can't really say I've seen too many people out there without a SL2 |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:52 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Oh yeah...my biggest reason for not liking Called Shots (sorry...it's late late late here)
There's no hit location system in SR...what are we doing screwing with general small point aims like that when the armor values are tallied off of the entire bodies worth of armor?? |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:55 PM
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#44
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Armor's abstract nature is preserved with the standard Called Shots rules.
Remember, you're still only trying to hit that super vulnerable spot. You're not guaranteed to hit it; your success is unknown until after you shoot, your target dodges, and your target soaks. |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:55 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
I never thought so...hmm...
yes, but why are my shin gaurds and helmet factoring in if the bullet ends up in my chest? And that's what I have the option for with Called Shots. |
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Oct 28 2004, 04:59 PM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
The thing is..for called shots to start working, you have to negate all armor not in the area being generally aimed at....
legs, leg armor chest, chest armor... problem is...all the armor together kinda determines if you hit them my point is...it's always been a heavily shady area that seems to be almost broken anyways...bedtime |
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Oct 28 2004, 05:03 PM
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#47
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
No, Doc does not say it all. He doesn’t even address my point except insofar as he points out that the example I used was non-canon (which I pointed out myself). I gave it to follow your string of examples, which in retrospect was a rhetorical error. The idea presented in the example is not undermined by the fact that that specific case is invalid, and I’ve presented valid cases of it before and since. An issue with the SL2 is not an issue with called shots themselves, much like an issue with a Smartlink-4 giving –20 to all firearms TNs wouldn’t be an issue with the preexisting ranged combat rules themselves. ~J |
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Oct 28 2004, 05:04 PM
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#48
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
That's the standard phenomenon under the abstract nature of the game, period. It's why Armor works no matter what part of your body it's covering... doesn't matter if it's a normal shot or a Called Shot or an Aimed Shot. |
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Oct 28 2004, 10:02 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
So about those stun batons and trolls…
Stun baton troll with a riot shield is something every 'Star riot control effort shouldn't be without. The opponents are looking for 6's and the troll is looking for 2's. Unless the opponent can put more than quintuple the dice of the troll into the contest his odds are not looking good. |
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Oct 29 2004, 12:12 AM
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#50
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Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 1-October 03 Member No.: 5,668 |
Enough friends in melee, and that riot cop troll is in as much trouble as his human counter-parts.
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