I have some interesting questions.

First -- Stun Batons
I strike an opponent with a Stun baton. I yield 2 successes more than my opponent. Damage of stun baton is 8S does the stun damage stage up to 8D

Second -- Shock Gloves
I strike an opponent with a Shock Gloves. I yield 2 successes more than my opponent. Damage of shock glove is 8S does the stun damage stage up to 8D as above.(the later would not be pertinent if successes doesn't changes shock damage)
As your physical damage also would increase (str)M stun to (str)S stun

Third -- Stun batons and Trolls
To determine TN for a Human and Troll. Human get +1 Reach(Stun Baton), Troll gets +2 Reach (Stun Baton and Nat. Reach).

Point 1 ( I believe is correct )
In saying that the Troll would either make the TN greater by +1 for human, or -1 TN for himself.

Point 2 ( This is harder game Machanics )

Human decides on either making his TN -1 or the Trolls +1. Either easier for him to hit the Troll or harder for the troll to hit him.

Troll decides on either making his TN -2 or the humans +2. Either easier for him to hit the human or harder for the human to hit him.

Point 1
This is going to be a harder longer combat as the TN are higher giving the skilled combatant the upper hand. As TN 4 or more is harder to generate on limited number D6

Point 2
All this does is make a finer line of choice, in which case the Troll is going to give the human a beating because of reach reach modifiers of 2. ( Yea I know Pole arms add a Extra reach. That would make combat totally favour Troll)

Summary.
Would it not be better to use this formula. Troll reach +2 less the Human Reach +1 giving the Troll the favour of +1 Reach and TN. This make a fair way of combat.
(To be corrected this is how the rule book explains it)

By canon, striking with a stun baton means your damage code is 8S Stun. So successes would modify that up or down, depending on the outcome.

Also by canon, the shock glove damage is (Str - 1) M Stun + 8S Stun. You can stage up the fist damage, but not the shock damage.

This, to me, is very odd. Therefore, in my games, they both work like the stun glove. The baton has a base damage code of (Str) M Stun just like a club, then + 8S Stun for the shock. Everyone has been happy with this so far ... they're still not widely popular except with the police.

I have no idea what you were trying to say with the rest of your post. Let me clarify. When figuring reach, the combatant with the greater reach gets to choose to either

1) add the difference in reaches to his opponent's target number (thus making himself harder to hit)

OR

2) subtract the difference in reaches from his own target number (making it easier for him to hit his opponent)

Either way, the person who controls reach for the combat has a huge advantage, especially when the difference is >1, like a troll with a combat axe.

Edit:

perhaps the issue with the stun glove is one where the stun baton is the actual issue.
If the glove's stun doesn't stage and has a seperate rate for damage without stun, then perhaps the baton needs the same treatment of seperation to make a consistent concept that electroshock damage isn't really capable of being staged up because it has a volt setting. (unless you amp more volts out of it )

[edit]

Your point is taken. But in the fact of Troll with stun baton and human with stun baton.
Troll has now +2 Reach, where as the Human has +1 reach.
Do both get to use thier reach modifiers, or the Troll just gets the +1 modifier and the Human +1 is negated by the Trolls other +1.

As was already stated, the combatant with the net Reach advantage (in this case the Troll) would have the choice of how to distribute the Reach bonus (in this case that is a net Reach of 1).

7S Normal Stun baton
8S for AZ 150

formalities, I am trying to get the understanding why stage stun damage up. A shock is a shock.

But a direct shock to a vulnerable area like the back of the neck is more shocking than a near-miss to a less vulnerable spot like your little finger or a naturally resist/armored spot like a troll's dermal deposit. Feel free to try it with a cattle prod sometime if you don't believe me.

I'd allow for called shots with a stun weapon, but no other stage up.

(ignore at will)Bah! called shots are a broken concept anywhere.(/ignore at will)

And to put it simply, if Stun Weapons were immune to staging, there'd be no way to knock someone out with one without sitting there zapping them repeatedly. With a Serious stun weapon, that means you'll do Deadly Stun Damage and two boxes of Physical Damage with two zaps. No changes allowed; you either resist it in full or you don't (staging works both ways afterall). No one will ever be stunned from a single hit, either. Ever. Not even a little girl with Body 1.

EDIT: Nope, called shots are only broken in abstract systems that already account for it in the standard mechanic. Shadowrun would be one such system.

But with a called shot to raise the damage level to Deadly, you'd have the TKO you desire

Assuming you'd ever hit. Which your average person wouldn't. (Modified TN 8, Skill 3.) It's not that hard to hit a good spot even against a struggling opponent... especially since staging accounts for "called shots" (aiming for vulnerable spots) to begin with.

Called shots for special effect are not broken.

~J

glitter.

The idea of having Aimed Shot and Called Shot in the same game is odd to me

I have no problem with the standard Called Shots rules for the most part; they serve their purpose as written. It's all the other ones, or house rules relying entirely on them in order to have any amount of staging, that I object to.

Why? Just because you’re going for the tires or the spotlight on a security van doesn’t mean you have any more time to devote to it.

Edit: that was to Stumps.

~J

calling shots is mostly dumb to me.
why?
um...it's a general point area aim. Meaning, you aren't directly aiming, but you are calling your shot at a general location on their body...
When aren't you doing that?

As for the the vehicle...that's why there's an Aim rule

In my opinion it represents a wild shot to a small and highly vulnerable area rather than sitting there for a few turns aiming. I know the rules for it include requiring an Aimed Shot, but the +4 target modifier represents the wild shot to a small area bit.

If you say “I shoot the van” it’s generally a given that you’re trying to damage the van. Calling a shot to the spotlight or tires results in a negligible chance of actually damaging the van, but accomplishes something that just firing to disable the van does not.

When aren’t you doing that? Quite a lot of the time, actually.

And the Aim rule is irrelevant, as the Doc points out.

~J

That’s all well and good, but firing at John’s pistol (for the sake of example. Canon states that you can’t do this on smaller than vehicle-sized targets) in an attempt to knock it from his hand is quite dissociated from the normal act of firing at his center of mass.

~J

Shooting at a tire is an Aim. I'm sorry. It will always be so.
Do it sometime. Tell me if you are Aiming or just generally shooting.

Standard Called Shots do not allow aiming for a specific portion of a metahuman-sized target, only vehicle-sized targets. When making a Called Shot against a metahuman, you're aiming at a *very* vulnerable spot, like the eye or neck. Whatever you percieve as being their most vulnerable spot the moment you pull the trigger... which you do as soon as you can rather than sitting there for a few phases, aiming, and waiting for the right moment.

A normal shot is aiming for a generally vulnerable area (the entire head, an unprotected part of his torso, whatever).

If the vehicle in question is speeding away and I have under a second? It’s most definitely not going to be a Take Aim action, I can tell you that now.

~J

I don't think I'll ever like called shots....
perhaps it's the open-ended raping of it that has ruined it for me, but it's just so damn abused so easily when it comes to ranged weapons ESPECIALLY after the weapons are all decked out.

Smartlink-2's are broken as far as Called Shots go. No argument from me there.

Kagetenshi: points up to post above yours where Doc says it all.

And I can't really say I've seen too many people out there without a SL2

Oh yeah...my biggest reason for not liking Called Shots (sorry...it's late late late here)
There's no hit location system in SR...what are we doing screwing with general small point aims like that when the armor values are tallied off of the entire bodies worth of armor??

Armor's abstract nature is preserved with the standard Called Shots rules.

Remember, you're still only trying to hit that super vulnerable spot. You're not guaranteed to hit it; your success is unknown until after you shoot, your target dodges, and your target soaks.

I never thought so...hmm...

yes, but why are my shin gaurds and helmet factoring in if the bullet ends up in my chest? And that's what I have the option for with Called Shots.

The thing is..for called shots to start working, you have to negate all armor not in the area being generally aimed at....
legs, leg armor
chest, chest armor...

problem is...all the armor together kinda determines if you hit them

my point is...it's always been a heavily shady area that seems to be almost broken

anyways...bedtime

So about those stun batons and trolls…

Stun baton troll with a riot shield is something every 'Star riot control effort shouldn't be without. The opponents are looking for 6's and the troll is looking for 2's. Unless the opponent can put more than quintuple the dice of the troll into the contest his odds are not looking good.

Enough friends in melee, and that riot cop troll is in as much trouble as his human counter-parts.